Colombian Andes Greenhouse SIP CBD Auto Grow

[InTheShed]

And then I test for pH both before the cook, and after the cook?

Lime takes about 3-5 days after wetting to become active as a pH buffer so testing before the cooking might not be accurate. I'd test after cooking and it you need to add more you could just retest in another week.

Might want to check that with someone who actually re-uses their soil though!

 

[CBDMed]

Might want to check that with someone who actually re-uses their soil though!

Hahaha! (Funny.)

I wrote Colombia Dude again. He says:

Good morning,
All AURORA INNOVATIONS products are packaged and manufactured in Oregon, USA by the company. Nothing is packaged or labeled in Colombia. The label is different because to sell the products in Colombia an ICA registry is necessary and this same entity validates what can and cannot have the label. In the Colombian label you will not find the ingredients since they are not guaranteed by the ICA for ease in importing the product but its composition is the same as that of the products sold in the USA, it is only a matter of label so that it complies with Colombian standards . Tech Industries is the owner of the ICA registry and sole importer of Aurora Innovations products for Colombia.

The most complete information available is what you find in the technical sheet that I sent you. Additionally, I am sending you all the documentation we have on the Roots Organics Original Potting Soil substrate.

All Roots Organics products have California CDFA registration that endorses them as organic and clean products ideal for growing cannabis and any medicine.

Any questions we remain attentive, thank you.

**

Ok, so if what he is saying is true, it is an Oregon product with a stupid Colombian label, and they ship it with the stupid label to give the (know-nothing) Colombian government exactly what they ask for (and nothing more, and nothing less, because otherwise they just cause you trouble).
Here in Colombia you don't hire based on technical anything. They literally hire friends and family members, whether they know anything or not. And it is a totally centralized bureaucratic system, so if the regulations are stupid, it just becomes easier to comply with them, than to fight them.

If it was rebagged here in Colombia, I would totally be suspicious. But if it is bagged in the States and sent here (with a stupid label) then I don't have any real concerns.

(The two other documents they sent say nothing of use. One is nothing more than a boulle logo, and the other is four pages of speaking to agricultural operations on a combine scale--nothing whatsoever to do with homegrown medicine. Dust particulate levels, etc.)

 

[InTheShed]

They seem to be amazingly patient with all your questions. I can't see them bothering to do all this for a single retail customer and lying about it.

 

[CBDMed]

They seem to be amazingly patient with all your questions. I can't see them bothering to do all this for a single retail customer and lying about it.

Yeah, I'm satisfied at this point.
If it is bagged in Oregon and shipped, I don't have any more concerns.

 

[cbdhemp808]

I think I just want to ask Colombia Dude in a friendly way if it is bagged and labeled in the USA, or in Colombia.
If it is bagged and labeled at Aurora in Oregon USA, then I think we don't have too many worries.
But if they bag and label it here, then there are worries about being cut or substituted, etc.

Sounds like a plan.

And I think I should also ask him why the lack of NPK and technical data on the label.
He might respond that they put what the Colombian government required to be put on the label, which would be believable. (Sorry to say but I had to deal with Colombian government regs on some other things, and I could not accuse them of being overly streamlined or logical [same as California]. So a "stupid regs" excuse would be believable. Because people here buy on name-brand recognition. They are not big on reading fine print details, etc. Not trying to be mean, that is just how it is here. An incomplete bag label would not be a deal killer for most/many.)

To me it boils down to... why did they completely re-write the Spanish version of the text**, and omit the ingredient list? Why would Aurora in the U.S. do something like that? The Colombian govt. just has some requirements re: analysis numbers, batch number, etc. They don't require a complete re-write of the label in order to satisfy(?) Colombian customers. Can we safely assume that the govt. doesn't require ingredients NOT to be listed? You said the Spanish label looks like it was printed on the bag... that's interesting. It's one thing to tack-on a second label w/ Colombian requirements, and quite a different thing to have a completely different bag printed. Hmm.

** I didn't actually fully check that, but it looks like it on quick glance.

 

[cbdhemp808]

The label is different because to sell the products in Colombia an ICA registry is necessary and this same entity validates what can and cannot have the label. In the Colombian label you will not find the ingredients since they are not guaranteed by the ICA for ease in importing the product but its composition is the same as that of the products sold in the USA, it is only a matter of label so that it complies with Colombian standards . Tech Industries is the owner of the ICA registry and sole importer of Aurora Innovations products for Colombia.

Oh, I see! Tech Industries owns the ICA registry!

Well... it's sort of like the govt. (i.e. Tech Industries) does require ingredients NOT to be listed

Now I'm starting to feel like you should just find individual ingredients and use those... coir, peat, perlite, guano, local topsoil, local compost, etc.

It's your call my friend.

 

[CBDMed]

Hey CBD!
Great letters. You really make me think and grow. I appreciate it.

To me it boils down to... why did they completely re-write the Spanish version of the text**, and omit the ingredient list? Why would Aurora in the U.S. do something like that? The Colombian govt. just has some requirements re: analysis numbers, batch number, etc. They don't require a complete re-write of the label in order to satisfy(?) Colombian customers.

What I know about applying through the Colombian and also the Chilean governments is that they have their exact requirements, and they are typically NOT written by people with knowledge about the areas. Rather, they are written by friends and relatives of the person in charge of that office. Chile isn't bad (really), at least not in comparison--but the Colombian laws I have seen seem like a total mish-mash, and the rules just. don't. make. sense.
We had a few pieces of paper that we just put our brains in neutral, and filled out the forms, and paid our fees, because it was much easier to do that, than to fight with Bogotá (which would cost who knows HOW much money and time, but certainly years).
We actually may have to pick a fight with Bogotá coming up soon (I hope not!), but not if we can help it. Because we will get poor, and the lawyers will get rich, and the government will just raise taxes to pay for their lawyers.
The whole thing could have been averted by a sensible testing and hiring policy, but it doesn't fly in Colombia (Chile was not this bad. You'd have to experience it to believe it.)

Can we safely assume that the govt. doesn't require ingredients NOT to be listed?

Yeah, probably! Lol!
But still I can easily see someone saying, "Look, the Colombian government wants THIS information on the bag. Just put THAT information on the bag, and leave it!"
I cannot imagine that happening in the US (or in any Protestant or Jewish country, actually). But here, I can totally see it.
(And please don't take that the wrong way! There are a lot of lovely people here, but I would not accuse them of planning. Or efficiency. Or even of trying to help industry survive. Here they treat each business like it is run by enemies of the people, and that everyone is a crook who needs to be caught. Seriously.)

You said the Spanish label looks like it was printed on the bag... that's interesting. It's one thing to tack-on a second label w/ Colombian requirements, and quite a different thing to have a completely different bag printed. Hmm.

** I didn't actually fully check that, but it looks like it on quick glance.

Yeah, in Colombia they have a national motto, "No dar papaya", which (roughly translated) means, "Don't get taken."
One of our contract helpers said, "It is sad to say, but my people are a bunch of opportunists."
So it totally pays to be careful (especially here, in the Land that Logic Forgot).
But, on the other hand, I can also see not wanting to paste a paper label on a paper sack. (And do they make rubber paste-it labels??)

I can see Mr. Dude of Aurora Innovations not speaking Spanish, and someone said, "Look, the government wants all kinds of stupid stuff. Just put on the label what they are asking for, and leave it."
I'm not saying that's right. I am saying I can see it here.
I don't like it. I still plan to pay an extra $100 just to have stuff tested.
But yeah, it seems totally believable that Mr. Dude in Oregon doesn't speak Spanish, and someone told him what to put on the bag to get Customs to approve it, and he could choose stressing it, or just getting the thing approved so he could go back to his bong, so he can dream up some more "Aurora Innovations."




If the stuff does not test and work good, I will have words with both Mr. Dude, and Mr. Colombia Dude.
But if it really is Roots USA in a funky "just get it through customs" funky-label Spanish bag, I think it will probably work great!
Or at the very least, hopefully Mr. Dude isn't spiking his Roots Organic bags with table salt!?

And yeah, I am totally up for remixing from scratch if we can't get this stuff to work.
But I'm pretty sure it will work.
But when it is spent and we need to make a new batch, I am totally up for ordering all of the meals, and learning more about how to build soil at that time (probably a couple of years away, though...).

 

[CBDMed]

Hey CBD.

Oh, I see! Tech Industries owns the ICA registry!

Well... it's sort of like the govt. (i.e. Tech Industries) does require ingredients NOT to be listed

Hahahaha!
Yeah, maybe Mr. Dude could stand to lighten up on the paranoia, and maybe break loose with some real technical analysis, and print a real pH and NPK on his bags???
Like you said, why not ADVERTISE all that stuff?
(Concept.!)

Now I'm starting to feel like you should just find individual ingredients and use those... coir, peat, perlite, guano, local topsoil, local compost, etc.

It's your call my friend.

Well, thanks! And thanks for helping me learn and grow so much!
(I am learning stuff that I never thought I would learn!)

Only, we already ordered the Roots. It should be here next week (plus one bag of Confiabonos Biogreen Premium).
As soon as they get here, I can send a sample out for a test on both soils (so we have some good datapoints).
It takes maybe a month to get the soil test back.
After that we can mix the soil. Then Subcool says to cook for 30 days. (Everyone else says to cook more--but we can just let it cook until it is good and done.)

But it occurs to me that after it is spent, I will need to either buy new bags of Roots (for the pre-loaded meal content), or else I will have to add those meals back in.
I found some web pages on how to recondition Subcool's specifically.
I also found some pages where Subcool updated his own recipe (which I need to read, 'cuz I've got the components for the OLD formula).

NEW formula 8 – 1.5 ft3 bags of high quality base soil 1 – 33lb. bag of Worm Castings 2.5 lbs. Fish Bone Meal (NO GOT!) 5 lbs. High Phosphorus Bat Guano 5 lbs. Blood Meal 2.5 lbs. Bone Meal 3 cups. Oyster Shell (NO GOT!) 3 cups. Kelp Meal 3 cups Alfalfa Meal (NO GOT!) 3/4 cup Epsom Salt 1 cup Dolomite Lime 2 cups Azomite 2 TBS powdered Humic Acid

OLD Subcool formula: 8 – 1.5 ft3 bags of high quality base soil organic potting soil with Mycorrhizae 1 – 25-50lb. bag of Worm Castings 5 lb. Steamed Bone meal 5 lb. Bloom Bat Guano 5 lb. Blood meal 3 lb. Rock Phoshate ¾ cup Epsom Salt ½ to 1 Cup Dolomite Lime ½ Cup Azomite 2 tbs. Powdered Humic Acid

To mix the new formula, I would have to buy some Fish Bone Meal, some Oyster Shell, and some Alfalfa Meal. (I already have kelp.)
Only, we have SOME of those meals already contained in the Roots Organic soil (which Subcool says is one reason why he recommends that brand).
So for this first go-round, I *could just follow the original formula, since the meals are already in there.
But then in any secondary re-loads to this soil, I would need to add the meals.

 

[CBDMed]

Oy...
I added the iron and copper chelates with the last two top-dressings of molasses, re-charge and myco.
I don't like the way it makes the soil look!
It has had one nice benefit, which is that there are less white flies! But I don't like what that says...

These girls are all worth helping to the finish line, but I sure hope we don't get any more table salt (or whatever it was) in the substrates!

Hopefully the soil will look better next week!

 

[Azimuth]

I good topdressing of worm castings would go a long way tonhelping break up that top crust.

 

[CBDMed]

I good topdressing of worm castings would go a long way tonhelping break up that top crust.

Hmm... I am guessing it probably would.
Only, these girls are pretty close to the finish line.
I think to help these girls hobble through to the finish line--and then on the next batch we can add some mulch.

Only, in a SIP (which is at least nominally bottom-fed), doesn't the top inch perform pretty much a mulch function?
So, could that top inch of mulch, also be a layer of normal soil?
Or what does the addition of worm castings really do that an inch of normal soil would not do?
(Also, which is cheaper? Haha.)

 

[Azimuth]

The castings are covered in a coating of calcium carbonate which adds calcium to your soil in addition to microbes and microbe pre-digested nutrients. Soil is decidedly not the same as a mulch.

And, which is cheaper? That's not the consideration here but, based on what you've paid for your soil inputs and the leaves I pick up for free in my yard, I'd say the mulch is cheaper.

 

[CBDMed]

The castings are covered in a coating of calcium carbonate which adds calcium to your soil in addition to microbes and microbe pre-digested nutrients. Soil is decidedly not the same as a mulch.

And, which is cheaper? That's not the consideration here but, based on what you've paid for your soil inputs and the leaves I pick up for free in my yard, I'd say the mulch is cheaper.

Thanks for answering, Azi. Sorry, I guess I was not clear.
Perhaps I should reformulate my question?
Would 1/2" (1.25 cm) of worm casting trap moisture in better than 1/2" of soil?

 

[Azimuth]

Soil is not a mulch, so you'll have to pick something else to compare the castings to.

The castings can be a bit dense so I usually mix them with leaves (my preferred mulch) but you could also use bark mulch, straw, black plastic, whatever. Just something to help preserve the moisture of the top most layer of the soil and keep it from drying out too quickly.

 

[CBDMed]

Soil is not a mulch, so you'll have to pick something else to compare the castings to.

The castings can be a bit dense so I usually mix them with leaves (my preferred mulch) but you could also use bark mulch, straw, black plastic, whatever. Just something to help preserve the moisture of the top most layer of the soil and keep it from drying out too quickly.

Ahh, ok, thanks!
Is 1/2" enough?
Or what is the preferred depth?
Thank you.

 

[Azimuth]

I usually go a full inch-ish at least. If it's too thin it dries out too quickly and doesn't serve the purpose.

 

[CBDMed]

I usually go a full inch-ish at least. If it's too thin it dries out too quickly and doesn't serve the purpose.

 

[CBDMed]

Hola a todos! I am just checking in.
The Roots Organic and the Confiabonos Biogreen Premium samples arrived at the lab for testing today.
The last time it took several weeks to get the report back, but it seemed like pretty good report.
Too bad there was all that salt in the base soil! But it was great to know it, thanks to CBD!
And I learned a lot, thanks to everyone!

The autos are still growing away. It is probably the ugliest crop I think I have ever imagined.
The stalks are mostly brown on the outside (although they still seem alive on the inside).
I think it is four months now, though, and still there is no amber...
("I am waiting patiently for amber to arrive...")

One question: whenever I do chop, is it possible to press the flowers, to get extract oils?
Or how does one make concentrates?
Thanks.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Or how does one make concentrates?

Rosin press is one option. Then you also have alcohol extraction and lipid extraction. Easiest is lipid extraction, meaning heating in an oil, such as MCT coconut oil or olive oil. Decarb temps: CBD - 230°-245° F, THC - 220° F.

 

[CBDMed]

Rosin press is one option. Then you also have alcohol extraction and lipid extraction. Easiest is lipid extraction, meaning heating in an oil, such as MCT coconut oil or olive oil. Decarb temps: CBD - 230°-245° F, THC - 220° F.

Thanks, CBD.
It seems good to know.
I think a rosin press is what I had in mind.
I will do some research.