Couldn't Resist A Christmas Auto Grow

[StoneOtter]

That's fair, but I'd start treating right now for Botrytis if trying to save the plant, and not just wait and see if it gets worse. It likely will. I don't want to be the bearer of bad news and I have utmost respect and admiration for Brother @InTheShed and his growing knowledge/abilities, but I'm pretty close to 420% sure that is not caused by compressed trichomes.

Better safe than sorry.

 

[Mr. Krip]

Better safe than sorry.

Exactly!

And, it may be early enough, since it's not very visible to the eye, that the H2O2 treatments clear it all up in time for harvest.

I also hate to see any plant have to come down but it's better than infecting the rest of the grow and much better than smoking mold spores.

 

[Mr. Krip]

Carm,

One more suggestion I just remembered....

Assuming we get to a harvest, you may want to look at "Water Curing" which is supposed to help with moldy bud.

I had read about this years ago and almost never see it done:

All You Will Ever Want to Know about Water Curing Cannabis​

May 19, 2022


After your cannabis is harvested, drying and curing are the next important steps to determining flavor and quality. Compared to conventional methods like curing in a mason jar, water curing your cannabis can cure it even faster. Of course, water-curing cannabis also has some disadvantages. read on to learn about the details of this different method.
The reason why marijuana needs to be cured at all is that doing so removes any irritating substance found in marijuana flowers. Through this process, the chlorophyll and sugars that make marijuana difficult to smoke decompose, thereby improving the smoothness, flavor, and comfort of smoking the plant. Traditional curing usually takes a few weeks while water curing cannabis only takes a few days.
There is a major drawback to water curing, so let’s get that out of the way first. THC and CBD in marijuana are fat-soluble, so soaking cannabis buds in water will not lose remove cannabinoids, and water can accelerate the decomposition of chlorophyll and sugar molecules that are not conducive to smoking.
That said, marijuana also contains water-soluble compounds that may wash off (such as terpenes), so the major drawback to water curing your cannabis is that it might reduce the odor and complexities in flavor profile. If that’s not something you care about and you just want to cure your cannabis quickly, water curing is a great technique.

Pros of water curing weed​

Simplicity: All you need is water (preferably reverse osmosis (RO) water), mason jars, and a little patience.
Speed: Water cures several times faster than air, so you can get the results you want quickly.
Bud Rot Rescue: Cannabis with bud rot cannot be air-cured, but water-cured can potentially make them usable. Be sure to do your research into bud rot before you smoke any buds that have gone rotten.

Cons of water curing weed​

Worse flavor profile: The water washes out the terpenes from cannabis, leaving you with a very mild smell. The potential upside to this is that it is a more discrete way to smoke.
Not great for sales: Water-cured cannabis is difficult to sell commercially due to lack of flavors—generally, water-cured cannabis just isn’t popular commercially.

So, how do I water cure cannabis?​

The first step, the pre-step if you will, is to prepare all your equipment: a mason jar, RO water, and mature cannabis flowers.
Step 1: After harvest, trim your buds but don’t let them dry out. Remove any stems and fan leaves—save those for butter.
Step 2: Fill the mason jar with clean water and submerge the buds. Ensure that all the buds are well exposed to the water, and if the buds are too light and float you’ll want to try to weigh them down. Seal the jar and make sure that it is airtight. Maintain water temperature between 65-75 degrees Fahrenheit.
Step 3: Shake the jar a little and change the water once a day. You need to change the water because curing occurs when cannabis is exposed to clean water. As well, the water will be full of the irritating substances that seep out of the buds so you’ll need to refresh the water on a regular basis. After doing this for 5-7 days, you will notice that the water is clear. When there are almost no impurities in the water, your cure is complete.
Step 4: Hang the cured cannabis to dry to remove the excess moisture.
There is also a “Rapid-Fire Method” that you can do in a day. Place the cannabis flower in a large flat bowl and pour running water over it gently. Do this for about 10 hours and the cannabis is cured. It is not the best technique—you’ll lose a lot of flavor and will potentially damage your buds but it is indeed possible.

Should I use water to cure my weed?​

Who should be doing this technique? Like the pros and cons we mentioned earlier, if you like a smooth mouth feel that has little odor using water to cure cannabis might be a decent choice to try out. Or, if you’re in a hurry to cure your cannabis, water curing is a quick way to get it done. We don’t normally go for this method, but we do know it is possible so we thought we would share. We know it is a controversial one and we would suggest that you only go this route if you have a specific set of goals you’re trying to achieve.

 

[013]

Carmen please read my reply on your FAQ page question BEFORE you chop her down

yes sir Mr K… I’m experimenting with no chop, whole plant water cure as we speak … yup I’m looking for low cough / no cough solutions

 

[Mr. Krip]

I’m looking for low cough / no cough solutions

Edibles!!!!!!

Have you tried the Perfect Pipe? I think they're still a sponsor. I did a review on them a couple/few years ago (link in signature), tossed my bongs a couple months later, and it's pretty much the only way I smoke flower these days. I'm probably their biggest customer with all the extra pipes, screens & filters I've ordered!

Do you have a link to where you're doing the WC? I'd love to see how that works out!

 

[Carmen Ray]

Thank you to you guys for a vibrant conversation about bud rot!

I had this question in 3 different places on the site. I asked in Shed's first because I wasn't sure how long it would be before the question would be seen in my journal. Then I put it in my journal, panicked and put it in FAQ section too! LOL

So I have harvested and I am glad I have. I would never have spotted the bud rot if I hadn't. I feel hopeful that I have saved the rest of the bud from damage. I smoked a toaster tester and it got me high!

An interesting point that came out in conversation with @SmokingWings in the FAQ section, is that the trichomes had begun to degrade in that photo.

Here are the shots I got of the affected buds. I washed in 1 % citric acid solution and separated all of the buds from one another. They are laying on a towel to dry off before they go in the dark. Waste not want not

 

[Carmen Ray]

I'm pleased with the harvest. The buds are dense and heavy. They are still drying off from the wash. This is half of a full size towel. The toaster tester got me high!

 

[NickHardy]

We had it on our last grow. Chopped (not trimmed) and drying for a couple of days and it had got worse.

Luckily a vastly more expwrienced mate came over and we had a deeper investigation. We trimmed and chopped that day. Seperated into 4 piles.

Top of one plant unusable - thown away maybe 30g

C Grade not fit for sale or smoke went with the trim to my friend who sells edibles. There was probably 60g and apparently he smoked quite a bit of it (plus a lot of trim - there was nearly a kilo I think, we keep quite lean on the foliage so not mega left at the end) He reckons they were stronger than his usual batch which is made with just the cheap Thai bush weed stuff, pressed but he varies the quantities quite a bit. Its not sure. He wants more to test with but that’s a few weeks out.

B Grade & Co (and her team) used a toothbrush on it. That was about 150g

A Grade treated normally. Grove bags. About 260g?

The B Grade definitely lacked the punch of the A but its on shelves in jars in shops 6 weeks later none the worse for wear.

You look like you’ve caught it much sooner than us though. We should have chopped 3 days earlier. Even a week. Got greedy and they were my first two plants so didn’t really want to see them go

I like the water curing idea. Our swimming pool is filled essentially with H202 at around 3% (nothing else, no salt or chlorine) so have a ready supply. Will give it a go with a bit in a while. Maybe off the outdoor grows.

Glad you got what looks some nice nugs with more on their way!

Nick

 

[StoneOtter]

Hi Carmen, Sweet harvest! I'm so glad you were on the ball and caught it before things got out of hand! She was hiding it pretty well! Now to dry, cure and enjoy! You're there!

 

[Carmen Ray]

I like the water curing idea. Our swimming pool is filled essentially with H202 at around 3% (nothing else, no salt or chlorine) so have a ready supply. Will give it a go with a bit in a while. Maybe off the outdoor grows.

I'm amazed about your pool... how is it filtered and how does it keep condition? It's not common to use H202 in a pool is it? I haven't heard of it before. It sounds clean and hygienic.
I'm glad to know what to look out for going forward, to avoid bud rot in future summer grows.

Hi Carmen, Sweet harvest! I'm so glad you were on the ball and caught it before things got out of hand! She was hiding it pretty well! Now to dry, cure and enjoy! You're there!

You know Otter, I thank my lucky stars that I looked closely at the trich pics and found the spores. I wouldn't have seen it until it was too late otherwise. I've had four hours of being high on this stuff. It passes the test but is quite unremarkable in taste so far. Smell has become quite piney but still floral and fruity.

 

[StoneOtter]

I'm amazed about your pool... how is it filtered and how does it keep condition? It's not common to use H202 in a pool is it? I haven't heard of it before. It sounds clean and hygienic.
I'm glad to know what to look out for going forward, to avoid bud rot in future summer grows.

You know Otter, I thank my lucky stars that I looked closely at the trich pics and found the spores. I wouldn't have seen it until it was too late otherwise. I've had four hours of being high on this stuff. It passes the test but is quite unremarkable in taste so far. Smell has become quite piney but still floral and fruity.

It sounds like it will be a nice smoke when it's all said and done. Time makes a big difference!

 

[InTheShed]

Sorry to get here late...kitchen issues all morning and half the afternoon.

I wanted to mention that not all mold is bud rot. I lost my entire Tin Can Kush to a mold that looked similar (but further along) to the top of the first pic you posted:

This was after 6 days of hang drying with no sign of rot when it was alive. I decarbed all of it and am saving it for topical pain oil. I remember @Amy Gardner lost a few plants to this type of stringy white mold as well a few years back and she dumped it all. Nothing that looks like this should be smoked, and it can't be washed away.

I would get that harvest down to 58% RH ASAP and check it with a loupe every few days to see if it's spread.

 

[Carmen Ray]

Sorry to get here late...kitchen issues all morning and half the afternoon.

I wanted to mention that not all mold is bud rot. I lost my entire Tin Can Kush to a mold that looked similar (but further along) to the top of the first pic you posted:

This was after 6 days of hang drying with no sign of rot when it was alive. I decarbed all of it and am saving it for topical pain oil. I remember @Amy Gardner lost a few plants to this type of stringy white mold as well a few years back and she dumped it all. Nothing that looks like this should be smoked, and it can't be washed away.

I would get that harvest down to 58% RH ASAP and check it with a loupe every few days to see if it's spread.

Yes that does look similar. Thanks Shed. Do you think that I should not be using the weed for smoke or edibles? I don't make or use salve. Surely if this weed is decarbed the mold will be killed?

 

[InTheShed]

Yes that does look similar. Thanks Shed. Do you think that I should not be using the weed for smoke or edibles? I don't make or use salve. Surely if this weed is decarbed the mold will be killed?

I think if you wait a week and inspect it with a loupe you can smoke whatever doesn't have the mold. Anything with the mold should be tossed if smoking is the only other option.

But do get it dry asap.

 

[CrochetingHybrids]

Congratulations on your harvest Carmen, I’m ecstatic you were able to catch things before it got out of hand, and were able to save your crop. I’ve heard of powdery mildew, blossom rot, and mold from gardening but i’ve never had to tackle them. I’m so happy everyone was able to give you advice. I’ve caught up on everything i’ve missed, I remember you said that it got you high. How were you able to smoke without drying/curing? Or is there a quick dry method you use for a “tester “? I am fairly new-ish to cannabis so I was under the impression that it wasn’t possible to “test” until the drying and curing processes were complete.
I hope you are feeling more at ease and are able to enjoy your weekend

 

[Carmen Ray]

I think if you wait a week and inspect it with a loupe you can smoke whatever doesn't have the mold. Anything with the mold should be tossed if smoking is the only other option.

But do get it dry asap.

Sorry Shed. To be clear, are you saying it should not be used for edibles or smoke, and my only safe option is to use for salve or discard? The buds are drying as we speak. Unfortunately I am unable to use a jewelers loupe as I am unable to hold it steady enough. I will have to make a call based on other criteria.

Congratulations on your harvest Carmen, I’m ecstatic you were able to catch things before it got out of hand, and were able to save your crop. I’ve heard of powdery mildew, blossom rot, and mold from gardening but i’ve never had to tackle them. I’m so happy everyone was able to give you advice. I’ve caught up on everything i’ve missed, I remember you said that it got you high. How were you able to smoke without drying/curing? Or is there a quick dry method you use for a “tester “? I am fairly new-ish to cannabis so I was under the impression that it wasn’t possible to “test” until the drying and curing processes were complete.
I hope you are feeling more at ease and are able to enjoy your weekend

Hi Lexi and thank you. I'm still trying to ascertain what I should do with this harvest. If it is unsafe for use then I may not have managed to save it after all. I used a toaster tester to check the effects. That is I took a popcorn bud and broke it up into small pieces which I placed on a tinfoil boat on top of a toaster until dry enough to crush and smoke. It's not ideal and you can't test flavour. You can get a sense of how high you are going to get though.
Have a good weekend too, thank you.

 

[InTheShed]

To be clear, are you saying it should not be used for edibles or smoke

I'm saying don't smoke it at all. Whether you can decarb and make edibles seems to depend on the type of mold, and that we don't know.

For example:
"Mycotoxins, in case you’re not familiar with them, are toxic compounds that are naturally produced by certain types of fungi, per the World Health Organization. Mycotoxins can lead to nausea, cramping, and vomiting, Chapman points out.

“Mycotoxin production due to mold growth on prepared food has not been well studied, so safety recommendations are relatively conservative,” Snyder says. Mycotoxins are also heat stable, meaning they won’t be destroyed through cooking. “It is also difficult to distinguish molds that produce mycotoxin just by looking at them,”"
Source

"Mycotoxins, especially aflatoxins, which are extremely toxic secondary metabolites, can reach critical values in cannabis extracts obtained from dry cannabis flowers with the maximum allowed quantity of mycotoxins. This can pose a great risk to consumers and their health especially to those with compromised immune systems."
Source

Like VG, I relegated probably close to 12oz of flowers to topical oil because of mold.

I will have to make a call based on other criteria.

To be honest, I'm not sure how you do that.

 

[Carmen Ray]

I'm saying don't smoke it at all. Whether you can decarb and make edibles seems to depend on the type of mold, and that we don't know.

I needed to hear you say this. It's a bit gut wrenching to look at that flower and see a season go to waste

For example:
"Mycotoxins, in case you’re not familiar with them, are toxic compounds that are naturally produced by certain types of fungi, per the World Health Organization. Mycotoxins can lead to nausea, cramping, and vomiting, Chapman points out.

“Mycotoxin production due to mold growth on prepared food has not been well studied, so safety recommendations are relatively conservative,” Snyder says. Mycotoxins are also heat stable, meaning they won’t be destroyed through cooking. “It is also difficult to distinguish molds that produce mycotoxin just by looking at them,”"
Source

"Mycotoxins, especially aflatoxins, which are extremely toxic secondary metabolites, can reach critical values in cannabis extracts obtained from dry cannabis flowers with the maximum allowed quantity of mycotoxins. This can pose a great risk to consumers and their health especially to those with compromised immune systems."
Source

Ok, putting it this way is very convincing. Hells bells @ mycotoxins.

Like VG, I relegated probably close to 12oz of flowers to topical oil because of mold.

... damn.

To be honest, I'm not sure how you do that.

I kind of knew that the moment the words were uttered and saved.

Thanks Shed. As usual this grow has been full of opportunities to learn to do better the next time.

Looking forward, I ordered my seeds for my next auto grow, the Skywalker OG.

 

[Carmen Ray]

Shed, regarding mycotoxins and topicals, I can't understand how it could even be safe to use the flower for topicals? I found this article Mechanisms of Mycotoxin-induced Dermal Toxicity and Tumorigenesis Through Oxidative Stress-related Pathways, and I think it says that it is dangerous to use moldy flower for topicals even?

 

[InTheShed]

Shed, regarding mycotoxins and topicals, I can't understand how it could even be safe to use the flower for topicals? I found this article Mechanisms of Mycotoxin-induced Dermal Toxicity and Tumorigenesis Through Oxidative Stress-related Pathways, and I think it says that it is dangerous to use moldy flower for topicals even?

Thanks for digging that up Carmen! I'm going to link @Virgin Ground here so she can see it as well.