SIP Club - Getting Hydro/Coco Results In A Soil Based Medium

[Azimuth]

Was chatting to u few weeks ago, ur were kind enough to give me good advice on watering. 2 weeks on and my plants are looking much better. They have had x2 dry periods now, with it taking 5 days in between watering. They are actually praying all the time now and ai ntoce new growth every day. Thanks..

Happy to hear it. Kinda fun when they grow well, no?

Watering is one of the most common challenges to get right especially for newer growers. That's one reason I like the SIPs so much. No learning curves and perfect watering every time because the plant takes what it wants.

I'm defo interested in trying this SIP set for my next grow. Looking to make my own to reduce cost a little. Found this video here were the dude uses a cotton shirt in the hole at the bottom. Would it be OK to use this for cannabis, or is it better to just use a smaller grow pot and drill holes in the side of it?

A 5 gallon bucket works  great for cannabis if you have the height in flower. I don't, so I use a 2 gallon which works just as well. Smaller plants though.

The design in the video will work great, but it's not my favorite design. I prefer the one on page two of this thread. Still a 1 bucket design, but mine handles all the rest (t shirt, 6" pot cut in two, bucket lid) with a food storage container from the dollar store.

But, lots of ways to achieve the end result as long as you keep the important design element of the air gap.

 

[Azimuth]

And what's the feeding like.. always nutes in the can? or is there a water cycle as well? no problems with overfeeding or lockouts?

That seems to depend on whether you grow with organic or synthetic nutes. But either way, no water cycle. I keep the reservoir topped off daily after the transition period of two weeks or so. I don't use salt based nutes but I'd imagine you'd treat it like a hydro grow as far as how often to feed. Maybe @Buds Buddy can weigh in on that question.

I mean you can grow the plant in nutes that's no problem but why is that it can often occur with top feeding plants in pots? Is it because the roots themselves just transport what they need from the nutrient rich area? and you're not soaking the whole pot with nutes force feeding all roots?

The nutes and water are poured into the bottom of the container through the fill tube, bypassing the soil altogether and then will wick up from below to spread the moisture through the rest of the pot. The plant will grow tiny feeder roots rather than the big water roots we typically strive to cultivate, and they'll take just what they want. But that's why it's also important to avoid top watering for the most part, to avoid oversaturating the soil with water.

 

[Pete Detroit]

Thanks, Pete!

And the purpose of the cork float?

It's a dipstick for checking water level in the tank ad the only other option is guess when it wants more. presumably the fill noise is different at it fills up - or you can slowly add water until it starts weeping out the drain holes (trust me, if the funnel is 1/2 full when it's full, it WILL gush! ) Apparently, some combo of the wire not being light enough / straight enough / stiff enough, or joints aren't clean enough in any event it's not actively mobile, much... will try with a balsa stick, next time. In any event, I can 'bounce' it, determine (more or less) how much water is in there - or at least thump it on the bottom when it's empty. If you look closely at the funnel in shots above, you can see the loop at the top.

 

[Pete Detroit]

That seems to depend on whether you grow with organic or synthetic nutes. But either way, no water cycle. I keep the reservoir topped off daily after the transition period of two weeks or so. I don't use salt based nutes but I'd imagine you'd treat it like a hydro grow as far as how often to feed. Maybe @Buds Buddy can weigh in on that question.


The nutes and water are poured into the bottom of the container through the fill tube, bypassing the soil altogether and then will wick up from below to spread the moisture through the rest of the pot. The plant will grow tiny feeder roots rather than the big water roots we typically strive to cultivate, and they'll take just what they want. But that's why it's also important to avoid top watering for the most part, to avoid oversaturating the soil with water.

Ok, VERY limited experience (like none, for tank SIPs) - the disaster first grow, killed two plants w/ ferts - my soil (bag of potting soil, 1/2 bag of manure, bag of worm poo, bag of perlite (mix in manure last) w/ a cup ea of blood / bone meal added with the worm casts. ANY way, it seems sufficiently rich (at least first use, may need to add ferts to re-cycle, or just make new dirt.. any way. As stated, added ferts to kids in veg, and later in bloom - killed a plant each time. So, I'm not planning to add veg nutes to anything in fresh dirt. Monster has had 2-3 doses of GeoFlora Bloom, 1/2 c 2 weeks apart sprinkled on top and top watered in, 3L / day for two days, then back to bottom watering. May try that again w/ the two tankers I've got going, or may just dissolve it in water, and add to tank, as I'm doing w/ Epsom for the gal who's Mg hungry. But Epsom dissolves in water, does GeoFlora Bloom? We gonna find out!

As for starting in small pot vs the large - seems to me (and, as always, I may be mistaken or just high) the PURPOSE of Solo (or what ever) starts is to help build up a good root system. When what we're looking for in SIP is an unconventional root system. Like a long (ish) tap, to start. I see no advantage to a small pot / cup start - putting the seedling into the big pot, you can alter wide / deep water patterns and train the tap. At the 2-4 week "third node" point when people seem to up pot out of a cup, Mine are ready to have the tank filled, and it's off to the freaking races! Seems to me you save 3 - 5 days "In transition" ??
Just MY 2¢...

 

[Azimuth]

It's a dipstick for checking water level in the tank ad the only other option is guess when it wants more. presumably the fill noise is different at it fills up - or you can slowly add water until it starts weeping out the drain holes (trust me, if the funnel is 1/2 full when it's full, it WILL gush! ) Apparently, some combo of the wire not being light enough / straight enough joints aren't clean enough... will try with a balsa stick, next time. In any event, I can 'bounce' it, determine (more or less) how much water is in there - or at least thump it on the bottom when it's empty. If you look closely at the funnel in shots above, you can see the loop at the top.

Early on when the plants are young and I want to see if and how much they are drinking, I use a thin, wooden dowel. When it hits the bottom and is pulled out, the water level shows quite clearly.

 

[Azimuth]

my soil (bag of potting soil, bag of manure, bag of worm poo, bag of perlite (mix in reverse order) w/ a cup ea of blood / bone meal added with the worm casts

The blood and bone meal are going to probably need a bit of 'cooking' time before its used. Think that might have been your issue?

But Epsom dissolves in water, does GeoFlora Bloom?

I don't believe that's the way they want it used. It's time release that I would think dissolving it in water would mess with.

 

[Pete Detroit]

I'm defo interested in trying this SIP set for my next grow. Looking to make my own to reduce cost a little. Found this video here were the dude uses a cotton shirt in the hole at the bottom. Would it be OK to use this for cannabis, or is it better to just use a smaller grow pot and drill holes in the side of it?

Good Video. I think I'd be inclined to put a LOT more "Venting" in the lid, and prefer the 4 in "dirt Wick" design over the tee shirt (which, I assume WILL degrade over time)
I actually prefer my design, but then I had buckets, PVC and coffee cans laying around, only needed to buy funnel, perlite (which you use any way)

 

[CBDMed]

Hi Azi.

The blood and bone meal are going to probably need a bit of 'cooking' time before its used. Think that might have been your issue?


I don't believe that's the way they want it used. It's time release that I would think dissolving it in water would mess with.

I am mostly reading and learning right now but I think I may have seen a page somewhere about how to mix GeoFlora into the soil.
I am 100% not knowledgeable if that is a "non-preferred" method for them, but I do seem to recall that there was a thread somewhere.
I don't know if that would be helpful or not, but thought I should say, in case someone knows where the link is (and this time I will bookmark it).

 

[Pete Detroit]

Early on when the plants are young and I want to see if and how much they are drinking, I use a thin, wooden dowel. When it hits the bottom and is pulled out, the water level shows quite clearly.

A literal dip stick!
Me I was hoping for something less hands on, kind of a "fuel gauge" on the lawnmower, kinda thing...
Yours has the advantage of working well...

 

[Azimuth]

A literal dip stick!
Me I was hoping for something less hands on, kid of a "fuel gauge" on the lawnmower, kinda thing...
Yours has the advantage of working well...

Maybe, but not as clever as yours.

 

[Pete Detroit]

Hi Azi.

I am mostly reading and learning right now but I think I may have seen a page somewhere about how to mix GeoFlora into the soil.
I am 100% not knowledgeable if that is a "non-preferred" method for them, but I do seem to recall that there was a thread somewhere.
I don't know if that would be helpful or not, but thought I should say, in case someone knows where the link is (and this time I will bookmark it).

IIRC Geo suggests amending the soil up front, and top dress / water in. Don't know what the recommendation is for SIP - when I did it to The Monster that was a top water build to start. So long as you don't over water, I don't see any issue w/ top watering a SIP - you'd want to let the tank empty, of course.

 

[Azimuth]

in case someone knows where the link is (and this time I will bookmark it).

The Geoflora Discussion Thread is always a good place to start.

 

[Azimuth]

IIRC Geo suggests amending the soil up front, and top dress / water in. Don't know what the recommendation is for SIP - when I did it to The Monster that was a top water build to start. So long as you don't over water, I don't see any issue w/ top watering a SIP - you'd want to let the tank empty, of course.

@Emilya Green has a few journals going now with SIPs using Geoflora. Topdressing according to the schedule and killing it as usual.

 

[Pete Detroit]

The blood and bone meal are going to probably need a bit of 'cooking' time before its used. Think that might have been your issue?


I don't believe that's the way they want it used. It's time release that I would think dissolving it in water would mess with.

Could well be. Bottom line, they're vegging like CRAZY, so no Veg nutes until / unless it looks like they need it (and Mg for Starving Girl)

Good Point on the Geo - will plan to continue to top dress in bloom, then, and gracefully water in..

And yes, Em grows aMAIZEing plants

 

[Pete Detroit]

@Emilya Green has a few journals going now with SIPs using Geoflora. Topdressing according to the schedule and killing it as usual.

Agreed, been following her side by Kush / DynoMyco with GREAT interest, decided to skip the compare and Dyno ALL my gals. Now I need more... >sadface<

 

[Buds Buddy]

That seems to depend on whether you grow with organic or synthetic nutes. But either way, no water cycle. I keep the reservoir topped off daily after the transition period of two weeks or so. I don't use salt based nutes but I'd imagine you'd treat it like a hydro grow as far as how often to feed. Maybe @Buds Buddy can weigh in on that question.


The nutes and water are poured into the bottom of the container through the fill tube, bypassing the soil altogether and then will wick up from below to spread the moisture through the rest of the pot. The plant will grow tiny feeder roots rather than the big water roots we typically strive to cultivate, and they'll take just what they want. But that's why it's also important to avoid top watering for the most part, to avoid oversaturating the soil with water.

I use Mega Crop which is a Chelated Nute. I quit using liquid 7 part stuff a few years back. Why spend extra dollars for the same results is how I see it. I feed nutes every time & I start feeding at about day 7 @ 1 gr. per gal. , second feeding @ 2 gr. per gal.. By then the roots should be starting to hit the res. which will have 3 gr. per gal. During most of Veg I have to feed 1 gal, per day. About the start of week 5 they start drinking a lot more. In Flower these girls go through 2 gallons of nutes per day, each. 2 feedings of 1 gal.
I've actually been quietly doing an experiment on feeding. My 2 plants in the tent, I feed twice per day. My 2 plants in the shed I feed once per day. Wanting to see how much it impacts bud size & yield.

 

[gazmufc]

I use Mega Crop which is a Chelated Nute. I quit using liquid 7 part stuff a few years back. Why spend extra dollars for the same results is how I see it. I feed nutes every time & I start feeding at about day 7 @ 1 gr. per gal. , second feeding @ 2 gr. per gal.. By then the roots should be starting to hit the res. which will have 3 gr. per gal. During most of Veg I have to feed 1 gal, per day. About the start of week 5 they start drinking a lot more. In Flower these girls go through 2 gallons of nutes per day, each. 2 feedings of 1 gal.
I've actually been quietly doing an experiment on feeding. My 2 plants in the tent, I feed twice per day. My 2 plants in the shed I feed once per day. Wanting to see how much it impacts bud size & yield.

Hey buds, I like the sound of that wee experiment. Be interesting to see the results. Here in Ireland I've been looking for a good line of nutrient lines up for the Sips method. I can get Dutch pro nutrients at a decent price. Some of the other products are pricy, and to get any of them shipped is like another 100buks. Have u ever tried Dutch pro? Think I'm gonna run with them

 

[Fenderbender]

That seems to depend on whether you grow with organic or synthetic nutes. But either way, no water cycle. I keep the reservoir topped off daily after the transition period of two weeks or so. I don't use salt based nutes but I'd imagine you'd treat it like a hydro grow as far as how often to feed. Maybe @Buds Buddy can weigh in on that question.


The nutes and water are poured into the bottom of the container through the fill tube, bypassing the soil altogether and then will wick up from below to spread the moisture through the rest of the pot. The plant will grow tiny feeder roots rather than the big water roots we typically strive to cultivate, and they'll take just what they want. But that's why it's also important to avoid top watering for the most part, to avoid oversaturating the soil with water.

Ah yes and which type of nutes? I'm guessing soil as we're still in that but don't you get a lot of sediment? If I leave my biocanna soil nutes in a bucket for a week I've got a thick brown layer coating everything.. in a system with airstones at least the solution keeps moving around a bit.

Yeahyeah I know you say don't overthink it but my mind won't allow it. It autodeduces and looks for scenarios encountered before and wants to understand why it wouldn't encounter the same problems.

 

[Buds Buddy]

Hey buds, I like the sound of that wee experiment. Be interesting to see the results. Here in Ireland I've been looking for a good line of nutrient lines up for the Sips method. I can get Dutch pro nutrients at a decent price. Some of the other products are pricy, and to get any of them shipped is like another 100buks. Have u ever tried Dutch pro? Think I'm gonna run with them

I haven't tried it. I have heard good things about it in the past. Probably on here. Maybe type in Dutch Pro in the search bar on the site & see how others did with it.
Wow, I wonder why shipping is so high. I'm sure it's being shipped on a ship or plane with a bunch of other stuff to the same destination. I swear, all these made up fees sure kill a person's income. Bunch of B.S.

 

[Buds Buddy]

Ah yes and which type of nutes? I'm guessing soil as we're still in that but don't you get a lot of sediment? If I leave my biocanna soil nutes in a bucket for a week I've got a thick brown layer coating everything.. in a system with airstones at least the solution keeps moving around a bit.

Yeahyeah I know you say don't overthink it but my mind won't allow it. It autodeduces and looks for scenarios encountered before and wants to understand why it wouldn't encounter the same problems.

Are you talking the Auto Pots ? That 12 gallon res. lasts about a week for 4 plants. In SIP's I go through 14 gallons per week for 1 plant. I use MC & after harvest, when I clean my buckets, there is a little sediment left in the bottom. But it's not much at all & sprayed right out with a hose. There is no Air Gap with the Auto pots so the bottom of the soil never gets any air helping the soil to dry out & take up more nutes. The Air Gap also provides needed oxygen to the roots to grow more vigorously. Yes, you can provide air with Air Stones or Air Domes in Auto Pots, but I don't think it works quite as effectively. I've tried both methods.