AfricanGrower's 2nd Hydro Journal - Perpetual - Multi-Strain - 2014

[Light Addict]

The E&F systems such as the Big Boy above and even my Oxygen Pot System do indeed leave a residue sat at certain points in the system. I know for a fact Oxy are doing everything to combat this and will have new developments out soon. Unfortunately systems reliant on gravity in any part are always going to have this issue? ??
Anyway I'm still just a newb to this style of growing so my word might not mean much lol.
Loving the update AG

 

[AfricanGrower]

Hurmmmm I though I had stopped by and left you a nice Howdy, hello, hwo ya been, been a while... but either I'm far too stoned or I was at one point before this far too stoned hahaha

Nice to see you rocking some sweet strains again. I want to see how your medic turns out. Subbed!

Nice seeing you J, always a pleasure. I'm sure the Medic won't see too many runs this season. I might have to discontinue propagating that strain just because of its level of difficulty and length of flower time.

I think that E&F system might have a few flaws. Plumbing into round containers are more likely to leak than square. Pumping the water out of the control to the master would still leave some behind in the sites unless they were slightly raised to a higher point than the control. Far more likely to contract pythium than in the croutons. I had that same exact concern my last "full" grow and luckily I had enough space under my grow closet to fit in a res. Me personally, I think your safest bet would be to shop around for a res bucket that is wide and low. This would allow you to stay in your current system and gain some head room, not all of it, but you'd gain back maybe half if you found the right lowpro res for your situation. Another thing I think you should look into is if you'll be able to keep the water cold to hold more dissolved O2. Ask Capn, I have been wanting to get into RDWC since he's known me, but until I can mitigate all the liabilities of DWC, it's pointless for me to even try it as all my efforts would be for naught.

>>>I think that E&F system might have a few flaws. Plumbing into round containers are more likely to leak than square.

+1. I have to agree with you there bro. All in all, I just wanted to use the plumbing behind this system while still implementing the croutons.

+1. But I'm thinking AG wants to do the flood and drain using cubes, right? Even so, I know I'm always a party pooper but there are so many things wrong with that grow system. Water on floor, complicated, too much margin for error, power out = dead plants, F&D needs too large a volume of water, can't do perpetual grow, not good for different strains, difficult to clean, can't get ALL the water out of the bottom of the bucket... the list goes on.

That said, you know I love ebb and flow buckets. Not sure if you remember these pictures, but I used to put a 3.5 gal pot of grow-cubes into a 5 gal bucket and flood and drain it. Since the 3.5 gal pot left 3-4" of space in the bottom of the bucket, it was ok if the bucket didn't drain all the way. This technique produced my second highest record from one plant (20zips, ace of spades). The only reason I don't run this now is because top feed needs a lesser volume of water underneath.


I do appreciate you wanting to keep the pot as low as possible. Height is always a PITA to work around. I wonder how a 3 gal bucket would work, sitting on top of a low res (you would want to find a little bit smaller res), like this:


Cut a big hole cut into the lid of the res to make room for the fittings. You could put your flood and drain fittings right in the bottom of the bucket, as if it were a tray. For the output, use a screen so grow cubes don't go down it. Another 6" hole for access to nutrients.

This technique would be difficult for growing 3-4 inside a small tent though. Just brainstorming. I'm always excited for new DIY grow systems.

>>>Water on floor, complicated, too much margin for error, power out = dead plants, F&D needs too large a volume of water, can't do perpetual grow, not good for different strains, difficult to clean, can't get ALL the water out of the bottom of the bucket... the list goes on.

These are always the top of the list every time I plan out the pro's and con's of "control bucket-based E&F System". Your thoughts on the individual 3 gal buckets each with their own low-profile reservoirs gives me an idea. Given my 16ft footprint, I think I could fit at least 4x low profile totes no greater than 7 gallons each. That means each will require a dedicated pump, but that gives the option to work with different strains perpetually.

The E&F systems such as the Big Boy above and even my Oxygen Pot System do indeed leave a residue sat at certain points in the system. I know for a fact Oxy are doing everything to combat this and will have new developments out soon. Unfortunately systems reliant on gravity in any part are always going to have this issue? ??
Anyway I'm still just a newb to this style of growing so my word might not mean much lol.
Loving the update AG

>>> do indeed leave a residue sat at certain points in the system.

Both you and Sky are correct on this. I have found that when I used to used E&F, I would always get at least 10-20% of remaining residual nutrient solution at the bottom of the bucket. Since I used this system mainly in flower, I would run the pump 3-4x a day, never leaving residual water to sit for too long before being recirculated.

You could even say, now when I do my weekly res changes, I work around a similar concept. Since my plants sit on top of my res, I can only pump out 70-80% of my nutrient solution, while filling the rest up with a fresh batch.

At the end of the day I'm not too worried about that side of the things. I would more than like to know how efficient are those control buckets that come with the paid E&F systems?

 

[stealthgrow]

Cheers.

 

[Light Addict]

My Oxy one is awesome, it drains to probs 99% takes about 20 secs or so to fill and pushes out to fill pots in about 5 mins. The timer is digi and you can program the hell out of it. The float system inside has a number of redundancies.

 

[Skybound]

The control bucket will work best if it is the lowest point of the system. Elevating the farthest site the most (even just an inch) and decreasing elevation the closer you get will ensure the water runs to the lowest point. The RDWC systems I've seen on YouTube never incorporate this, but they would be made more efficient if they did as the max amount of nutes would ultimately back fill to the lowest point ensuring you extract the most spent nutes for the weekly change outs.

 

[AfricanGrower]

My Oxy one is awesome, it drains to probs 99% takes about 20 secs or so to fill and pushes out to fill pots in about 5 mins. The timer is digi and you can program the hell out of it. The float system inside has a number of redundancies.

>>>The float system inside has a number of redundancies.

Could you care to elaborate more on your float system in the control tank? Maybe a few pictures so I can implement some of its designs for my RO catch tank.

The control bucket will work best if it is the lowest point of the system. Elevating the farthest site the most (even just an inch) and decreasing elevation the closer you get will ensure the water runs to the lowest point. The RDWC systems I've seen on YouTube never incorporate this, but they would be made more efficient if they did as the max amount of nutes would ultimately back fill to the lowest point ensuring you extract the most spent nutes for the weekly change outs.

That makes a lot of sense in my mind now that you explain it like that. Anything less than 6in off the ground is acceptable for my expected growth in an 8ft tent. Going even further, strains that stretch more than others could sit at the lower points of the system, keeping a more even canopy. I will continue to brainstorm

 

[AfricanGrower]

WEEKLY UPDATE

14/09/2014

Hey all, I have prepared a video update this week for a little more in depth and visual perspective of the grow. I will try and prepare these videos every once in a while when I feel the need. Enjoy, comments and questions are welcomed.

 

[TheCapn]

WEEKLY UPDATE

14/09/2014

Hey all, I have prepared a video update this week for a little more in depth and visual perspective of the grow. I will try and prepare these videos every once in a while when I feel the need. Enjoy, comments and questions are welcomed.

Oh baby! I love this video. I'm only 5 minutes into it but wanted to make a few comments before I forget.

1. LOVE the systems you have going here. The entire tent kicks ass. Your stuff looks so healthy.

2. Could you post a link to that ingredient you put in the tea? The funny one I'm not familiar with...

3. Gnat Cure: (sling will vouch for me) I got this tip from "the dude"

4. Don't use neem oil in flower once you see buds, if you plan on making oil with your trim. The oil will not get stable. Something about the neem oil will prevent it from hardening up.

5. Those are some VERY thick stalks!

6. What a perfect veg set up. Are you doing flood and drain on those clear plastic totes?

 

[TheCapn]

Back to the subject of keeping it low. Over the wknd, I took one of my 15 gal walmart totes and cut 4" off it. It was difficult to get the lid back on but I jammed it on. Now, the bottom of my pot is only 7" off the floor, instead of 11". I'll use thumbnails here, as not to bombard your journal. I'm going to run it one flower cycle and see how it does. It holds about 8 gallons now. Not much room for error.

 

[c526]

great video,great setup man

subbed,AG

 

[shanker65]

Your crops are looking amazing! That's a very cool video; Sounds like you definitely have growing down to a science!

 

[AfricanGrower]

Oh baby! I love this video. I'm only 5 minutes into it but wanted to make a few comments before I forget.

1. LOVE the systems you have going here. The entire tent kicks ass. Your stuff looks so healthy.

2. Could you post a link to that ingredient you put in the tea? The funny one I'm not familiar with...

3. Gnat Cure: (sling will vouch for me) I got this tip from "the dude"

4. Don't use neem oil in flower once you see buds, if you plan on making oil with your trim. The oil will not get stable. Something about the neem oil will prevent it from hardening up.

5. Those are some VERY thick stalks!

6. What a perfect veg set up. Are you doing flood and drain on those clear plastic totes?

>>>2. Could you post a link to that ingredient you put in the tea? The funny one I'm not familiar with...

I'll PM you the link as it is not a sponsor.

>>>Are you doing flood and drain on those clear plastic totes?

Yes the two on the top Flood and Drain twice a day while the newly rooted clones on the lower level get hand watered once a day.

>>>I'm going to run it one flower cycle and see how it does. It holds about 8 gallons now. Not much room for error.

Keep me updated on how that goes. I won't be able to shorten anything for another month when this cycle of flowering is complete. The only thing I would be concerned with is the shear weight of two plants on the top. Was the structure integrity compromised when you cut the tote?


Update should be on its way this weekend

 

[TheCapn]

Your crops are looking amazing! That's a very cool video; Sounds like you definitely have growing down to a science!

AG is meticulous, for sure.

>>>2. Could you post a link to that ingredient you put in the tea? The funny one I'm not familiar with...

I'll PM you the link as it is not a sponsor.

>>>Are you doing flood and drain on those clear plastic totes?

Yes the two on the top Flood and Drain twice a day while the newly rooted clones on the lower level get hand watered once a day.

>>>I'm going to run it one flower cycle and see how it does. It holds about 8 gallons now. Not much room for error.

Keep me updated on how that goes. I won't be able to shorten anything for another month when this cycle of flowering is complete. The only thing I would be concerned with is the shear weight of two plants on the top. Was the structure integrity compromised when you cut the tote?


Update should be on its way this weekend

It did compromise the tote's strength, but I think it will be fine. I've got the purple dream on it now, which doesn't stretch too much anyway, so I didn't really NEED to do it this time, but giving it a try anyway.

Always look forward to your updates.

 

[AfricanGrower]

Sorry for the missed update this weekend guys. I currently don't have a functioning camera. I will get one as soon as I can. Thanks for your patience.

AG

 

[Light Addict]

Hey AG, some pics of the workings of my comma d module. If you need better let me know and ill endeavour to get better!

 

[AfricanGrower]

Hey Light, so I have been trying to figure out everything in those pictures. May you explain what those 3 black rods are for. Also, does a pump sit in the module?

Sorry guys for keeping this update held off for so long. Please bear with me this year guys as it has been a busy one, but I anticipate to dedicate a lot more time in my hobby as soon as the holidays roll through.

Here is another update video from Sept. 30th. Enjoy

(Note: this is WEEK 5 DAY 1 in the flower tent.)

Part 1

[video=youtube;HYfw2meArCQ]

[/video]

Part 2

[video=youtube;0ftw3-jWX10]

[/video]

 

[Light Addict]

Hey buddy, yep with the command module you have three floats up top and two down below. These are your cut off switches etc up top, so you don't overflow, I think thats 2, one as a redundancy, the other is a minimum fill to set the level constantly. As yes you do have a pump in bottom of module and one in reservoir. Both are rigged to this module via the plug/brains section.
As the system relies on gravity you need a constant level being maintained during flood cycle. The two at bottom are to activate pump on empty cycle. Again they double up for redundancy!
Also you have a siphon valve on the one tube going into res so no worries of it feeding back etc. The level for fill of buckets is adjustable also!

 

[Skybound]

LA, is that an ebb & flow system?

AG, at your convenience, can you elaborate on the usage of the lady bugs? Do they stay alive for a while, or just eat the thrips/gnats, then die?

Also, I can't remember if it was a thread on this, or another site, or possibly even youtube, but I was researching for DIY duct silencers and came across a grower that terminated his duct hose into a tuff tote with an output hole located 90° from the hose connection, so if your hose entered from a side, the output hole would be on the very next wall. Though it didn't completely eliminate the noise, it did reduce it substantially. Maybe you can play around with the idea as I heard a fair amount of humming when your cam was near your output hose.

Thanks for the vid update, so much easier than reading!

 

[Light Addict]

Yep Sky its an E & F system.

 

[AfricanGrower]

Hey buddy, yep with the command module you have three floats up top and two down below. These are your cut off switches etc up top, so you don't overflow, I think thats 2, one as a redundancy, the other is a minimum fill to set the level constantly. As yes you do have a pump in bottom of module and one in reservoir. Both are rigged to this module via the plug/brains section.
As the system relies on gravity you need a constant level being maintained during flood cycle. The two at bottom are to activate pump on empty cycle. Again they double up for redundancy!
Also you have a siphon valve on the one tube going into res so no worries of it feeding back etc. The level for fill of buckets is adjustable also!

Thanks LA for the explanation. Seems like the system takes care of a lot of redundancies and human error.

LA, is that an ebb & flow system?

AG, at your convenience, can you elaborate on the usage of the lady bugs? Do they stay alive for a while, or just eat the thrips/gnats, then die?

Also, I can't remember if it was a thread on this, or another site, or possibly even youtube, but I was researching for DIY duct silencers and came across a grower that terminated his duct hose into a tuff tote with an output hole located 90° from the hose connection, so if your hose entered from a side, the output hole would be on the very next wall. Though it didn't completely eliminate the noise, it did reduce it substantially. Maybe you can play around with the idea as I heard a fair amount of humming when your cam was near your output hose.

Thanks for the vid update, so much easier than reading!

>>>AG, at your convenience, can you elaborate on the usage of the lady bugs? Do they stay alive for a while, or just eat the thrips/gnats, then die?

Hey Sky, well I tend to deploy 100 or so just before lights off cycle. This ensures that the ladybugs are not shocked into a new environment as they are most active at night. I try and scatter the majority of them around the root zone to allow them to find their way up the plants. Since ladybugs typically have a 4-8 week lifecycle, I deploy them at the beginning and the end of the month.

They feed, mate, then eventually end up dead 3-4 weeks later in my tent. Nice thing about this method is that I will still have ladybug larvae that will beginning consuming anything the adults left behind.