Cardboard Flowerbox Test 3 - 41 Week Perpetual SOG

[jandre2k3]

re: Cardboard Flowerbox Test 3 - 41 Week Perpetual SOG

You SHOULD have the same light source for the 1 hour on at "Night" but some people use a secondary source so as not to fire the ballast/bulb 2x/day. They think it puts extra wear and tear on it. This is not true, in my belief, and am currently testing this hypothesis in my own flower box. As long as the bulb cools for at least 15 minutes after it has gone of, it can be started again safely with very little repercussion. This current bulb had ~200 hours on it when I purchased it. If this is true as the man I bought the bulb/ballast/hood from says, I should have about 18,000 hours on it from date of purchase. If the bulb fails before that, I will test it on a brand new bulb TWICE before coming to a conclusion. With the current bulb, there should be 3.79 years left on the bulb using it 13 hours a day.

In my honest opinion, even if it fails in two years, even if the life is halved, the cost difference is negligible if bulb failure happens that often rather than every 4 years. Most people replace a High Pressure Sodium bulb every season, anyway, and the rest go about two years. I know of none that use a bulb for the entire 4.21 years a single buld is supposed to last. The reason for this is simple: Photosynthetically available radiation (PAR) and lumen levels tend to decrease as a bulb gets older because of the breakdown of the sodium inside the bulb. Therefore most growers prefer to replace the bulb at least every two years in order to give their plants the most PAR they can.

 

[Closet Farmer]

re: Cardboard Flowerbox Test 3 - 41 Week Perpetual SOG

I am considering just putting my plants on the GLR routine right now even though they have less than a month to go in veg. Would that be ok? Do you think it might increase my speed to show the sex at the flip?

I pulled my timer out of the veg room and have all the dials set up. All I have to do now is plug in and let go.

 

[donpaul.p]

re: Cardboard Flowerbox Test 3 - 41 Week Perpetual SOG

jandre, i read somewhere that a old bulb will cause the ballast to use more electric, i cant remember where i read this but it was something like as the bulb gets older and even though it looks as bright it might only be giving out 50% light wise, and this then causes the ballast to use more power, ill try and find where i read this, im sure i saved the link, maybe you know this also, just wondered if it was true or not as an old bulb would then cost more to run than replacing it with a new one, so i think replacing a hps every 12 to 16months would be the way to go,

you can use the same light for the hour on in glr as you use all the time, the only reason people use cfls for the 1 hour light period is to lower running costs, you are not exactly making the plants grow in this hour your just stopping them from going into flower by disturbing the 12 hour dark period, i can only assume the gas lantern routine refers to people growing out doors and to stop their plants flowering they used a gas lantern to give the plants some light during the night time, so this is then what we are trying to achieve with glr, you could use the hps or mh for the one hour its on during the dark i dont think it would cause to many problems as bulbs are rated in hours so it will only be like leaving it on for an extra hour while the light is on, and as people replace bulbs long before they reach the end of the life then i dont think it would make any difference in bulb life, i only mentioned cfls as a cost effective way or if you have temp issues and needed the door open when the light was on then using cfls during the dark period would mean no high temps to worry about for that hour,

 

[Closet Farmer]

re: Cardboard Flowerbox Test 3 - 41 Week Perpetual SOG

Thanks for the explantion of Gas Lanterns in the fields. Never heard of that but it sure makes sense! Sounds really like all you are doing is giving the plants just enough light to not go in flower. Saving as much electricity as possible. When you think about it, in nature plants are really only given enough light not to flower also and flower when the time of year changes. I still have a hard time wrapping my head around getting better growth with GLR as opposed to 24/7 but it is worth a try. You all can't be wrong!

 

[jandre2k3]

re: Cardboard Flowerbox Test 3 - 41 Week Perpetual SOG

I am considering just putting my plants on the GLR routine right now even though they have less than a month to go in veg. Would that be ok? Do you think it might increase my speed to show the sex at the flip?

I pulled my timer out of the veg room and have all the dials set up. All I have to do now is plug in and let go.

Go ahead, it wouldn't hurt them, and it will accelerate the flower transition and reduce stretch.

 

[jandre2k3]

re: Cardboard Flowerbox Test 3 - 41 Week Perpetual SOG

jandre, i read somewhere that a old bulb will cause the ballast to use more electric, i cant remember where i read this but it was something like as the bulb gets older and even though it looks as bright it might only be giving out 50% light wise, and this then causes the ballast to use more power, ill try and find where i read this, im sure i saved the link, maybe you know this also, just wondered if it was true or not as an old bulb would then cost more to run than replacing it with a new one, so i think replacing a hps every 12 to 16months would be the way to go,

you can use the same light for the hour on in glr as you use all the time, the only reason people use cfls for the 1 hour light period is to lower running costs, you are not exactly making the plants grow in this hour your just stopping them from going into flower by disturbing the 12 hour dark period, i can only assume the gas lantern routine refers to people growing out doors and to stop their plants flowering they used a gas lantern to give the plants some light during the night time, so this is then what we are trying to achieve with glr, you could use the hps or mh for the one hour its on during the dark i dont think it would cause to many problems as bulbs are rated in hours so it will only be like leaving it on for an extra hour while the light is on, and as people replace bulbs long before they reach the end of the life then i dont think it would make any difference in bulb life, i only mentioned cfls as a cost effective way or if you have temp issues and needed the door open when the light was on then using cfls during the dark period would mean no high temps to worry about for that hour,

This is true, as a HPS bulb gets older, it takes more and more volts to keep the arc in the bulb glowing.

CFL's also put out 65% of the light they did when new at the same voltage.

but we're not talking Lumens, we're talking PAR, which is what plants use. PAR is Photosynthetically Available Radiation. Lumens have something to do with this, but the SPECTRUM changes as a bulb gets older as well, and although the lumens may be as bright the PAR can be WAY down, and even though we cannot perceive the difference, the plants may not be getting the wavelengths they actually need to live and continue life processes.

With this in mind, it is very possible to have 30,000 lumens, and still have a plant yellow, and die because the PAR is not present in the correct amounts.

 

[jandre2k3]

re: Cardboard Flowerbox Test 3 - 41 Week Perpetual SOG

Thanks for the explantion of Gas Lanterns in the fields. Never heard of that but it sure makes sense! Sounds really like all you are doing is giving the plants just enough light to not go in flower. Saving as much electricity as possible. When you think about it, in nature plants are really only given enough light not to flower also and flower when the time of year changes. I still have a hard time wrapping my head around getting better growth with GLR as opposed to 24/7 but it is worth a try. You all can't be wrong!

In plant life there are three distinct periods a plant goes through.

1. Photosynthesis: light energy is converted to carbohydrates in the leaves, and is moved to a central storage place for use later.
2. Rest: The plant stops most major function, and even can be seen to wilt a bit during this time. In cannabis it is about four hours.
3. Growth: Stored carbohydrates are moved and used by the plant to perform repair of damage and for growth. In cannabis it is about six hours.

24/0 or 24/7 allows for the plant to perform photosynthesis at any time of the day, but can cause the rest period to be ineffective. Think of it like this: Can you sleep with the lights blazing in your eyes? Cannabis needs at least 4 hours of "rest" in a 24 hour cycle.

20/4 tries to capitalize on this, but can miss the rest period altogether. This time also does not allow for the growth period after the rest period to be most effective.

18/6 was seen as the best, as it gives maximum photosynthesis time, while giving a 6 hour window in which the plant can go into and out of the rest period smoothly. However, this causes the growth period to be partially during the time at which photosynthesis is also taking place.

We all know that the period of most growth is for 5 to 6 hours, directly after the rest period, when the plant uses the most stored energy from the photo period throughout the day. This growth period is much more effective if the plant is not doing this while photosynthesis is also taking place. Sort of like not being able to walk, and chew gum at the same time. A longer dark period is best to allow for this to be accomplished.

Now with the discovery of the 12-1 photo period, the plant is allowed 12 hours to carry on daylight photosynthesis for carbohydrate production and storage, and 12 hours is allowed for growth at night, which usually follows the 4 hour rest period. This 12 hour dark is only interrupted by a 1 hour window at night with light to destroy the flower hormone, but this does not interrupt the rest period if the plant has shifted into such, Also, while photosynthesis does take place because of light, the one hour is not adequate to fully shift the plant into food-making mode, and away from growth and repair if it happens to be taking place during the lights on period at night...

Thus, allowing a longer period of dark, the grower allows the plant to fully rest, and after the rest period allows the plant to focus on growth, instead of also photosynthesizing at the same time with an extra 2 hour's wiggle room for the plant, if it cannot get to sleep, so-to-speak, right off.

 

[jandre2k3]

re: Cardboard Flowerbox Test 3 - 41 Week Perpetual SOG

I have done extensive research on the subject, and I attempted to SIMPLY explain the reasons for it, without all the gory other details that come into play, such as nutrient uptake, and liquid movement, and production of chlorophyll and such... Although it was quite in-depth, here, I really was trying to keep it simple. I truly hope it helped, while not being too overwhelming or confusing.

 

[Xlr8]

re: Cardboard Flowerbox Test 3 - 41 Week Perpetual SOG

This is true, as a HPS bulb gets older, it takes more and more volts to keep the arc in the bulb glowing.

CFL's also put out 65% of the light they did when new at the same voltage.

but we're not talking Lumens, we're talking PAR, which is what plants use. PAR is Photosynthetically Available Radiation. Lumens have something to do with this, but the SPECTRUM changes as a bulb gets older as well, and although the lumens may be as bright the PAR can be WAY down, and even though we cannot perceive the difference, the plants may not be getting the wavelengths they actually need to live and continue life processes.

With this in mind, it is very possible to have 30,000 lumens, and still have a plant yellow, and die because the PAR is not present in the correct amounts.

Lumens are for humans! (I hear that said at the hydro store all the time). Nice explanation brother!

I've now vegged 24/0, 18/6 and 12-1/GLR. While I think the veg is a little faster in 18/6 or GLR, I don't see a huge difference honestly. And for me, now, 24/0 is so convenient. I've read a ton on this stuff too, and the rest period stuff is overblown, imo. I look at my 24/0 plants in wonder at how happy they are, and amazement at how quickly they grow... Just like I did under 18/6 or GLR. I like the notion that GLR builds up flowering hormones, though.

I'd do the GLR if it wasn't for the convenience factor of 24/0 and the lack of significant difference as far as the results - imo. Please don't take this wrong, Jandre, as I love your description and the theory is hard to argue. Just not seeing anything to be disappointed with under 24/0 and I'm not needing more rapid vegging more than convenience. My space is dictating the light schedule unfortunately!

 

[OldMedMan]

re: Cardboard Flowerbox Test 3 - 41 Week Perpetual SOG

I have done extensive research on the subject, and I attempted to SIMPLY explain the reasons for it, without all the gory other details that come into play, such as nutrient uptake, and liquid movement, and production of chlorophyll and such... Although it was quite in-depth, here, I really was trying to keep it simple. I truly hope it helped, while not being too overwhelming or confusing.

Ahhhhh say wut?


No, that was well done jandre!

 

[Smokemupm8]

re: Cardboard Flowerbox Test 3 - 41 Week Perpetual SOG

I wish i could get some good sativa strain here.. im used to growing bag seed, if it was mad weed i grew a seed!

 

[jandre2k3]

re: Cardboard Flowerbox Test 3 - 41 Week Perpetual SOG

Lumens are for humans! (I hear that said at the hydro store all the time). Nice explanation brother!

I've now vegged 24/0, 18/6 and 12-1/GLR. While I think the veg is a little faster in 18/6 or GLR, I don't see a huge difference honestly. And for me, now, 24/0 is so convenient. I've read a ton on this stuff too, and the rest period stuff is overblown, imo. I look at my 24/0 plants in wonder at how happy they are, and amazement at how quickly they grow... Just like I did under 18/6 or GLR. I like the notion that GLR builds up flowering hormones, though.

I'd do the GLR if it wasn't for the convenience factor of 24/0 and the lack of significant difference as far as the results - imo. Please don't take this wrong, Jandre, as I love your description and the theory is hard to argue. Just not seeing anything to be disappointed with under 24/0 and I'm not needing more rapid vegging more than convenience. My space is dictating the light schedule unfortunately!

Thank for the reps, though. And thank you for FINALLY debating in one of MY journals for a change....



convenience? What do you not have a timer? You go in and flip a wall switch or something? To me it is very convenient knowing that when I flip at a certain height, there is not much stretch at all, and most of my plants will finish 1-2 weeks earlier due to the fact that they start flowering almost immediately. Not waiting for them to make the transition, and the fact that I don't sweat the stretch is enough for me... Well, that and the ELEVEN HOUR SAVINGS per day of power. Pretty convenient to pay a bill that's almost half of what it would be... ... ...


LUMENS ARE FOR HUMANS!! I LOVE IT!

 

[jandre2k3]

re: Cardboard Flowerbox Test 3 - 41 Week Perpetual SOG

Ahhhhh say wut?

Yes, I am a geek, and proud of it!

No, that was well done jandre!

 

[jandre2k3]

re: Cardboard Flowerbox Test 3 - 41 Week Perpetual SOG

I wish i could get some good sativa strain here.. im used to growing bag seed, if it was mad weed i grew a seed!

So Austrailia is dry in TWO ways now: Precipitation, and tokification...

TRy visiting our sponsor seed banks... they have some wonderful seeds... And you can even get them as souvenirs!

Sponsors | 420 MAGAZINE ®

 

[Smokemupm8]

re: Cardboard Flowerbox Test 3 - 41 Week Perpetual SOG

So Austrailia is dry in TWO ways now: Precipitation, and tokification...

TRy visiting our sponsor seed banks... they have some wonderful seeds... And you can even get them as souvenirs!

Sponsors : 420 MAGAZINE

LOL...Na we do have some great weed here, its just you have to have the contacts to get onto them! A few of my friends in states where its decriminialised grow all year round for personal use, they showed me their ways and ive done a tonne of research since and also alot of trial and error. But i know i must be doing something right as i helped a friend with some of my last girl when he was dry, and he thought id bought it, well he told me it was mad, and he wanted more, but told him sorry mate- thats all i could get.. My nxt is in eager anticipation!! Thanks mate

 

[Smokemupm8]

re: Cardboard Flowerbox Test 3 - 41 Week Perpetual SOG

At start of my plants growth i had it under cfl's for 24/0 for 3 weeks, but only to start her off...When i went HID i was more precise in times and such but i would recommend having sum dark period, it saves cash and wont be a huge jump down from veg to flower if u 12/12, but u can gradual reduce like i did..

 

[SurfBuddy]

re: Cardboard Flowerbox Test 3 - 41 Week Perpetual SOG

I am considering just putting my plants on the GLR routine right now even though they have less than a month to go in veg. Would that be ok? Do you think it might increase my speed to show the sex at the flip?

I pulled my timer out of the veg room and have all the dials set up. All I have to do now is plug in and let go.

Plug and go! DO IT!

you can use the same light for the hour on in glr as you use all the time, the only reason people use cfls for the 1 hour light period is to lower running costs, you are not exactly making the plants grow in this hour your just stopping them from going into flower by disturbing the 12 hour dark period, i can only assume the gas lantern routine refers to people growing out doors and to stop their plants flowering they used a gas lantern to give the plants some light during the night time, so this is then what we are trying to achieve with glr, you could use the hps or mh for the one hour its on during the dark i dont think it would cause to many problems as bulbs are rated in hours so it will only be like leaving it on for an extra hour while the light is on, and as people replace bulbs long before they reach the end of the life then i dont think it would make any difference in bulb life, i only mentioned cfls as a cost effective way or if you have temp issues and needed the door open when the light was on then using cfls during the dark period would mean no high temps to worry about for that hour,

I think my plants grow during the 1 hour. They certainly drink water. And they look bigger. So I use the full strength lights during the 1 hour at midnight.

Jandre, Since you've done mucho research on this... do you think it is possible, that during the 1 hour that the plants could be walking and chewing gum at the same time, i.e. having their growth since they had rest, but also photosynthesize? It would explain the *extra* growth that some of us (not X ) see with GLR...

 

[jandre2k3]

re: Cardboard Flowerbox Test 3 - 41 Week Perpetual SOG

Plug and go! DO IT!



I think my plants grow during the 1 hour. They certainly drink water. And they look bigger. So I use the full strength lights during the 1 hour at midnight.

Jandre, Since you've done mucho research on this... do you think it is possible, that during the 1 hour that the plants could be walking and chewing gum at the same time, i.e. having their growth since they had rest, but also photosynthesize? It would explain the *extra* growth that some of us (not X ) see with GLR...

Well, Not X, of course, but it's possible. Like I said, some photosynthesis does happen, but it's not enough to totally shift gears to full photo, because it's only an hour, and then it goes off. All living things do their repair, and growth at night, and fuel/food/what have you during the day. Unless they're nocturnal, then it's the opposite.

My point here is that there is a definite energy gathering time, and a definite energy USE time. Non-plant life does it during sleep. Plant's don't sleep, per se, but they do actually have a rest period where most life processes go almost completely nil, followed immediately by a repair and growth period.

Anyone have a time lapse camera? Set it on a plant, every 30min take a pic, you'll actually see the plant wilt in the photo, then perk up and start growing, either in girth, or height.

 

[Xlr8]

re: Cardboard Flowerbox Test 3 - 41 Week Perpetual SOG

Oops! Double posted somehow.

 

[Xlr8]

re: Cardboard Flowerbox Test 3 - 41 Week Perpetual SOG

Thank for the reps, though. And thank you for FINALLY debating in one of MY journals for a change....



convenience? What do you not have a timer? You go in and flip a wall switch or something? To me it is very convenient knowing that when I flip at a certain height, there is not much stretch at all, and most of my plants will finish 1-2 weeks earlier due to the fact that they start flowering almost immediately. Not waiting for them to make the transition, and the fact that I don't sweat the stretch is enough for me... Well, that and the ELEVEN HOUR SAVINGS per day of power. Pretty convenient to pay a bill that's almost half of what it would be... ... ...


LUMENS ARE FOR HUMANS!! I LOVE IT!

I just need the flexibility to work with the plants when I feel up to it, which can be different day to day, plus I have a situation where my veg space must be entered to get to the flowering tent. I personally have a hard time coordinating everything especially when I factor in how I'm feeling. The handiness factor is priceless to me.

I'm not debating it works (GLR) but I don't see that 24/0 and lack of rest is making any probs for my plants whatsoever, either. I dont want people to think 24/0 doesn't work great, too, because it does and the convenience of anytime access to me is well worth it. The lack of rest thing gets overblown, IMO, in relation to actual results I've seen, but I also like the flowering hormone build up theory and I think there is something to that. If things were different with my space, or me, I'd do 12-1/GLR for the savings in $$$ and the hormone buildup.