Colombian Andes Greenhouse SIP CBD Auto Grow

[CBDMed]

Hey CBD!

So, is the water being wicked up from the reservoir? This is good.

Siiiii, on the SIP threads they have been debating the various ways to get the SIP seedlings to start sipping on their own sooner, because getting them to sip on their own seems to be the whole point of the exercise.
Some hand water for a while, but my thought was, there is a "moisture gradient" wicking up from the rez.
When the res is full, it wicks up better (and keeps everything damper).

So, my thought was to fill the rez to wet the soil, and then refill it.
Then soak and plant beans, and only hand water just enough to keep the beans moist (and then quit when you see cotys). So you just give it a nudge to help it get started, and then stop, because by the time you see coties, she has access to all the moisture she needs.
I stop hand wateing just as soon as I see coties, and all the girls have made it.

I recently calibrated my pH pen, which involved using little packets of powder that came with the pen, which when mixed with distilled water give you specific pH values. It's a China pen, various branding...

Ok, thank you!
I have not read anyone's responses yet, but the pH paper looked good to me.
(Maybe that's wrong?)
Anyway, it was great to see such a burst of growth with the dog water!
Maybe the rice hulls are stealing N, so I can augment by the fill tube.

 

[CBDMed]

All the strips look about the same, excluding the discoloration due contact w/ the soil.

So it seems, between 4 and 5 pH... acidic.

Note the color of the test paper before getting it wet... looks between 4 and 5 to me. When the test paper is wetted, it would go orange and red for high acidity, and greenish or solid green for alkaline. This test you did shows it didn't deviate... still between 4 and 5, I'd say.

Yeah, I would be interested to calibrate the pen, and see what it says. I am sure it is better than reading the gradient on the pH paper! (I don't trust my ability to read it.)
I was glad that it did not also read an 8!
Only, I think several people said that pH does not really count for in-soil organic grows. Does that seem correct?
So... is a SIP a soil grow (such that pH does not count)? Or is a SIP grow a hydro grow (such that pH does count)?

Do you have any of the supersoil left before addition of the rice hulls, etc.? That would be an interesting test.

The only supersoil I have before rice hulls is some spent buckets that the soil did not hardly get tapped (because there was not enough aeration).
At some point I will have to recondition it.
I did apply some other top-dressings, so I am not sure if that would give us an accurate readout, or not.

 

[InTheShed]

I don't think those test strips are worth much so use the pH pen. The rest of the process looks fine, and there's no need to dig around deeper unless you were testing a month's old living plant where the roots might have changed the pH over time.

For the record, 1ml of distilled water is 1g, so that's a wash. And as I mentioned, a slurry is more important than the 1:1 thing. Just wet enough to be able to measure the change in the water pH.

Also, pH meters will not accurately measure the pH of distilled water.
Source

 

[cbdhemp808]

Only, I think several people said that pH does not really count for in-soil organic grows. Does that seem correct?

It makes sense to me that the soil mix needs to be in the right pH range for cannabis. In my opinion, this is fairly easy to arrive at if none of the ingredients would throw the mix toward being too acidic or too alkaline. For example, a mix with a lot of peat moss (pH 3-4) in it would tend toward being too acidic (which would need to be compensated for), while if coco coir (pH 6-6.7) was used instead, the mix would be naturally closer to the right pH range.

So... is a SIP a soil grow (such that pH does not count)? Or is a SIP grow a hydro grow (such that pH does count)?

I tend to think that both soil and reservoir pH count. I haven't experimented with SIP yet, but I like the idea of it being primarily a "runoff recycler", meaning: 1) using a really well-fertilized custom, organic, living soil mix, -and- 2) watering from the top – no tube needed. This way the deep roots are able to get nutrient-rich runoff, without the additional need to fill the reservoir with a pH-balanced nutrient supply.

 

[CBDMed]

I don't think those test strips are worth much so use the pH pen. The rest of the process looks fine, and there's no need to dig around deeper unless you were testing a month's old living plant where the roots might have changed the pH over time.

For the record, 1ml of distilled water is 1g, so that's a wash. And as I mentioned, a slurry is more important than the 1:1 thing. Just wet enough to be able to measure the change in the water pH.

Also, pH meters will not accurately measure the pH of distilled water.
Source

Ok, I am trying to calibrate the meter.

The powder for the pH 6.86 dissolved well, but less so for pH 4.0, and pH 9.18 does not seem to dissolve too much.

I am re-starting my slurry, and hope to test in an hour.
Thanks!

 

[CBDMed]

It makes sense to me that the soil mix needs to be in the right pH range for cannabis.

Yeah, I guess that does make sense.
Maybe it might not be as critical as hydro systems, but probably still important.
Good reality check.

In my opinion, this is fairly easy to arrive at if none of the ingredients would throw the mix toward being too acidic or too alkaline. For example, a mix with a lot of peat moss (pH 3-4) in it would tend toward being too acidic (which would need to be compensated for), while if coco coir (pH 6-6.7) was used instead, the mix would be naturally closer to the right pH range.

Yeah, that makes total sense. Thanks!

Oh by the way, if I am planning to do soil and SWICK and SIPs, will I need a PPM meter for anything? (Meaning, like I should order one?)
Or just pH?

I tend to think that both soil and reservoir pH count. I haven't experimented with SIP yet, but I like the idea of it being primarily a "runoff recycler", meaning: 1) using a really well-fertilized custom, organic, living soil mix, -and- 2) watering from the top – no tube needed. This way the deep roots are able to get nutrient-rich runoff, without the additional need to fill the reservoir with a pH-balanced nutrient supply.

Right.
I was thinking that also, and I don't know, but @ReservoirDog said to follow the Octopot instructions (which were done my Ph.D.s).
In the Octopot system, one never top waters, but always waters from below, and the reason why is because there is supposed to be something special about maintaining a constant moisture gradient, so the plant is not always being thrown into confusion and forced to adapt, first dealing with too much moisture, and at other times dealing with too little.
I don't know, but RD said they did studies, and letting the plant sip from a constant moisture gradient, coupled with the air gap below the roots, leads to the best results.
So I am trying to water through the fill tube. It took me a little, but now I just pour the water directly on the bobbledy-stick, and it goes right down the small funnel-let.

I think probably the more experienced growers will know more about how to work this, but so far it seems to be working great. Mine seem to take 2 weeks to find the rez, maybe I could shorten that with root nutrients, or something.
After the nitrogen, things are really starting to take off.
I am very encouraged. I never saw anything like this before SIP.

I think @Krissi Carbone has some self-watering pots. I don't know if she top waters, or bottom waters. She is a much more experienced grower.

 

[Azimuth]

Mine seem to take 2 weeks to find the rez, maybe I could shorten that with root nutrients, or something.

It's more that they took a couple of weeks to morph into the roots they'll need in these pots. They find moisture within a couple of days at most, but it's more than they're used to so they need to adapt and that's what takes the time.

I also grow in clear 1L takeout containers so I can watch the roots and they find the moisture they need quite quickly.

I think @Krissi Carbone has some self-watering pots. I don't know if she top waters, or bottom waters. She is a much more experienced grower.

She grows in pots with a smaller reservoir and waters from the top.

 

[CBDMed]

Ok, when I came back, the residues were dissolved in the pH 9.18, so I re-stirred everything, and re-calibrated.
I hope I did it right.
I doubled the test pH batch, and then after an hour and 15 or something I stirred real good, and pushed all the solids to one side, so there was a small pool.
I think the slurry is hovering about pH 6.11.
This one says 6.13. (Another said 6.07)
(If that is accurate, actually we could use a little alkaline from the rice hulls breaking down...)

Did I maybe mess it up?
Or did I do everything alright?
And the internet says the acceptable range is 6.0 to 7.0 for most gardens.
So is 6.11 ok?

 

[CBDMed]

It's more that they took a couple of weeks to morph into the roots they'll need in these pots. They find moisture within a couple of days at most, but it's more than they're used to so they need to adapt and that's what takes the time.

I also grow in clear 1L takeout containers so I can watch the roots and they find the moisture they need quite quickly.


She grows in pots with a smaller reservoir and waters from the top.

Ahh, ok. Thanks!
Does her grow suffer any from top-watering? (I think that is what CBD was asking, is if it is OK to top water.)
I know that RD is death on top watering, but you and @Emilya Green and others seem to use it successfully (provided there is no runoff to the rez).

So is there a conclusion? Is it ONLY the air gap that makes the difference?
Or is it the air-gap PLUS the constant moisture gradient that does the trick?
Thanks AGAIN, Azi!

Shed, that really makes it obvious that the runoff pH has nothing to do with the soil pH!

 

[Azimuth]

Does her grow suffer any from top-watering?

Have you  seen her garden? I have and I would say her plants don't suffer much from anything.

So is there a conclusion? Is it ONLY the air gap that makes the difference?
Or is it the air-gap PLUS the constant moisture gradient that does the trick?

I think the combination makes these pots very forgiving. ResDog references the optimal way determined by the PhD's, but I've found a very wide zone of very good results even though they may fall short of the ideal optimum.

 

[CBDMed]

Have you  seen her garden?

Lol!!
That's true!
Krissi has some gorgeous bud pics (suitable for framing!).
(The girl knows how to grow some weed!)

I have and I would say her plants don't suffer much from anything.


I think the combination makes these pots very forgiving. ResDog references the optimal way determined by the PhD's, but I've found a very wide zone of very good results even though they may fall short of the ideal optimum.

So, top watering DOESN'T mess up the moisture gradient????
Meaning, SIPs DON'T have to be watered from the bottom only??
Meaning, you can water them from the top, and get the same results?
(And do we KNOW that? Or are we guessing still?)

It would be great if one can top water, and there are no disruption effects.

 

[InTheShed]

Did I maybe mess it up?
Or did I do everything alright?
And the internet says the acceptable range is 6.0 to 7.0 for most gardens.
So is 6.11 ok?

Only you know if you messed up but if you didn't then 6.11 should be okay for soil. A bit on the low side but I doubt it would pame a big difference to the grow this early.

And runoff pH is not a thing in soil or coco or peat. The only way runoff pH is something to measure is if you're running the pour-though pH test, and I don't see how you could do that in a SIP anyway!

 

[StoneOtter]

Lol!!
That's true!
Krissi has some gorgeous bud pics (suitable for framing!).
(The girl knows how to grow some weed!)



So, top watering DOESN'T mess up the moisture gradient????
Meaning, SIPs DON'T have to be watered from the bottom only??
Meaning, you can water them from the top, and get the same results?
(And do we KNOW that? Or are we guessing still?)

It would be great if one can top water, and there are no disruption effects.

Her pots are designed for top water I believe.

 

[CBDMed]

Only you know if you messed up but if you didn't then 6.11 should be okay for soil. A bit on the low side but I doubt it would pame a big difference to the grow this early.

And runoff pH is not a thing in soil or coco or peat. The only way runoff pH is something to measure is if you're running the pour-though pH test, and I don't see how you could do that in a SIP anyway!

Thanks, Shed!
Ok, light bulb coming on!
So, next time, run the slurry test and adjust the soil to (ideally) @ +/- 6.5 pH BEFORE I put the soil in the pots?
Ok, I guess even I will catch on, eventually!!
(I hope!)

Planting beans in the open 3 containers!

 

[InTheShed]

So, next time, run the slurry test and adjust the soil to (ideally) @ +/- 6.5 pH BEFORE I put the soil in the pots?

If you're mixing your own it's always good to know where you're starting from. I discovered that even expensive store bought soil can be wrong out of the bag!

 

[Azimuth]

So, top watering DOESN'T mess up the moisture gradient????

Yes, it does mess it up. That's why we don't do it that often, maybe lightly once a week and just to get the dry top dressing ammendments wet.

Meaning, SIPs DON'T have to be watered from the bottom only??
Meaning, you can water them from the top, and get the same results?

The way I see it, Krissi's pots store most of their water in the soil like normal pots. She also has a bit of excess from the runoff that serves as an additional reserve for the plants. She can get away with it because of the air gap in her pots. One wouldn't want to do that with a normal pot.

With the buckets many of us grow in, the majority of the water is stored in the reservoir and is wicked up into the soil as the plant drinks what's there. Since the majority of the water comes up from below, the lower area is wetter the deeper you go. The plant roots adapt to this and that's why watering from the top will mess it up since the upper roots adapted to a less moist soil compared to the bottom. Plus it's so much faster pouring water down the fill tube.

And do we KNOW that? Or are we guessing still?)

Well, based on our collective experience. I don't know of any double blind scientific experiments that have been conducted. But in the end this thing is a weed, and we all grow according to our own rules. We share what has worked and not worked for us, but everyone is free to do with the information what they will.

 

[cbdhemp808]

The powder for the pH 6.86 dissolved well, but less so for pH 4.0, and pH 9.18 does not seem to dissolve too much.

I had to stir it *a lot*

 

[cbdhemp808]

I have been under the impression that the tip of these pH and PPM pens needs to be immersed in the liquid. Like at least 1/2" worth. Am I off on that?

 

[cbdhemp808]

With the buckets many of us grow in, the majority of the water is stored in the reservoir and is wicked up into the soil as the plant drinks what's there. Since the majority of the water comes up from below, the lower area is wetter the deeper you go. The plant roots adapt to this and that's why watering from the top will mess it up since the upper roots adapted to a less moist soil compared to the bottom. Plus it's so much faster pouring water down the fill tube.

Hmm. OK, so assuming a nutrient-rich soil mix... In a SIP without a tube, the water would permeate the soil, then there would be runoff in the reservoir. Top watering can be done liberally, until some runoff comes out the reservoir overflow tube. As the soil starts to dry out, wouldn't the wick still bring water up?

In either style SIP, roots will get down into the reservoir. The overflow tube provides air to the reservoir. So then you've got the reservoir roots getting water and nutrients there, and air, and the soil roots also getting water and nutrients. The difference is in the microbes in the soil, helping feed the nutrients to the soil roots. I wonder if the reservoir roots – given that the reservoir will collect nutrient-rich runoff – would get substantial nutrients from the reservoir. I think the answer's gotta be yes, because that's what hydro is. But there are obvious differences between liquid fertilizers and non-liquid fertilizers.

I'm just saying that even in a SIP without a tube, the roots will be getting water either from the reservoir, or the soil, or both.

 

[CBDMed]

Hmm. OK, so assuming a nutrient-rich soil mix... In a SIP without a tube, the water would permeate the soil, then there would be runoff in the reservoir. Top watering can be done liberally, until some runoff comes out the reservoir overflow tube. As the soil starts to dry out, wouldn't the wick still bring water up?

In either style SIP, roots will get down into the reservoir. The overflow tube provides air to the reservoir. So then you've got the reservoir roots getting water and nutrients there, and air, and the soil roots also getting water and nutrients. The difference is in the microbes in the soil, helping feed the nutrients to the soil roots. I wonder if the reservoir roots – given that the reservoir will collect nutrient-rich runoff – would get substantial nutrients from the reservoir. I think the answer's gotta be yes, because that's what hydro is. But there are obvious differences between liquid fertilizers and non-liquid fertilizers.

I'm just saying that even in a SIP without a tube, the roots will be getting water either from the reservoir, or the soil, or both.

I think Azi's post speaks to this?
(Or not clearly enough??)

Thanks, all!