i should just choose my moments better - not when I’m too tired to explain or clarify if necessary 
InTheShed Grows Inside & Out: Jump In Any Time
i should just choose my moments better - not when I’m too tired to explain or clarify if necessary 
screw that. you been around too long to have to explain yourself.
you're a class grower all the way and have earned it.
So, apropos some of these thoughts on the stability of intersex traits there is this idea that with backcrossing you can somehow occupy ¾ of the classic mendellian quadrangle with the genes of one parent.
(Nick whatsit, C99, the Brothers Grimm fellow. Mr Soul)
As breeders select for wanted traits, other alleles naturally get to piggyback on this process. It seems mathematically possible/likely that @Amy Gardner is right. We may need a bigger hammer.
Also, something MrSoul said somewhere about some reversals is that you might never see the male flower let alone ever see pollen to collect - even though it’s there.
Still more questions than answers, but some of the questions may be getting warmer.
(Nick whatsit, C99, the Brothers Grimm fellow. Mr Soul)
As breeders select for wanted traits, other alleles naturally get to piggyback on this process. It seems mathematically possible/likely that @Amy Gardner is right. We may need a bigger hammer.
Also, something MrSoul said somewhere about some reversals is that you might never see the male flower let alone ever see pollen to collect - even though it’s there.
Still more questions than answers, but some of the questions may be getting warmer.
I had been wondering if the breeder had incorporated something in the development of the strain to prevent it from changing sex.
I don’t know if it’s possible to do on purpose, but from what DD suggested, maybe it is, so i had thought it was perhaps a natural and more accidental/genetic effect. Some chemovars turn easier than others - I think that’s a natural phenomenon.
dynamo1
Photo of the Month: May 2018
ditto
Hybrid corn can be sterile or lack seed. Some of it is genetic but GMO can be bred to be sterile. It ensures repeat customers and specific strain identification if the should need litigation for theft.
Maybe the Candida has a genetic resistance?
But that is just this stoners musings on the subject....
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- #24,049
Busy Saturday...checking in.
you in all your moments. 
you sexxy airhead ↓
I'm not sure I know what feminized plants are. Are female plants grown from feminized seeds feminized plants? Are they genetically different from other female plants?
It's okay if someone thinks you don't know something. No one here thinks you're uninformed! If you get the impression they think that just set the record straight! As Celt said below, speculation can be the key to unlocking creative thinking in others.
What Amy said ↓
What Celt said ↑
What Stunger said ↑
We
you in all your moments. What bluter said ↑
I'll take invisible pollen if it makes for visible seeds!
you sexxy airhead ↓That definitely seems to be the case. Celt had an easy time with one and a very difficult time with another. beez0404 didn't manage to reverse a Candida with CS and he's quite the seedmaker. If this doesn't work then I'm afraid I won't get to play Johnny Candidaseed, and it will be a clone-only plant going forward.
Well really I think there are feminised seeds. “Regular” seeds produce roughly equal amounts of male and female plants (give or take). Feminised seeds are made from reversing a regular female plant and using that to pollinate itself or another female plant (either clone of same or sister) - resulting in all female producing seeds (mostly ... 99% or something). Usually the original reversed plant for this process is from regular seed, not yet feminised.
Reversing a regular female plant is genetically more sound, AFAIK. (I have read that reversing an already feminised/reversed line can reintroduce some genetic variety).
smokesbetter
Well-Known Member
Marking my spot for next pics. of Is THAT A SEED OR APID 
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This I know. What I don't know is if the female plant grown from a fem seed is genetically different from a female plant grown from a reg seed. Does the genetic sequence change in the process, so that a lab could tell the difference?
I fee like most of the reversals done here are done on purchased feminized seeds. I'd need to do a survey though!
LOL! These days is 100% certain it's an apid.
technically i don't think it is much different. you still need the same number of x's and y's to produce a male or female plant. what is different is how the pollen is produced.
it's my understanding most good breeders produce feminized seed using female reg plants, once they have the cross they are shooting for. i have nothing to go on, but i think it's a bit more stable.
feminized seed has actually been around since the 80's. sensimilla became popularized around then. i was a film student and the chemicals were widely known to make seed in the film industry.
it's my understanding most good breeders produce feminized seed using female reg plants, once they have the cross they are shooting for. i have nothing to go on, but i think it's a bit more stable.
feminized seed has actually been around since the 80's. sensimilla became popularized around then. i was a film student and the chemicals were widely known to make seed in the film industry.
I had been wondering if the breeder had incorporated something in the development of the strain to prevent it from changing sex.
I originally planned not to reply to the post above because it seemed sarcastic so it seemed best to ignore it but since Amy, bless her heart
followed up on my statement below in a more constructive way, I thought it would be rude to continue ignoring it.I’m sure I don’t know
But originally they would’ve reversed a regular female plant, not a feminised one - and maybe that’s different.
I’m speculating - based on the fact that no-one can reverse a feminised specimen.
I don’t know if it’s possible to do on purpose, but from what DD suggested, maybe it is, so i had thought it was perhaps a natural and more accidental/genetic effect. Some chemovars turn easier than others - I think that’s a natural phenomenon.
Busy Saturday...checking in.
I'm not sure I know what feminized plants are. Are female plants grown from feminized seeds feminized plants? Are they genetically different from other female plants?
It's okay if someone thinks you don't know something. No one here thinks you're uninformed! If you get the impression they think that just set the record straight! As Celt said below, speculation can be the key to unlocking creative thinking in others.
What Amy said ↓
What Celt said ↑
What Stunger said ↑
We
What bluter said ↑
I'll take invisible pollen if it makes for visible seeds!
That definitely seems to be the case. Celt had an easy time with one and a very difficult time with another. beez0404 didn't manage to reverse a Candida with CS and he's quite the seedmaker. If this doesn't work then I'm afraid I won't get to play Johnny Candidaseed, and it will be a clone-only plant going forward.
Amy!
I was just rereading what I’ve written and I noticed that apparent ambiguity and knew you would too. Technically I would actually have to clarify that what I meant was a female plant grown from feminised seed - and given that feminised seeds provide 99+% female plantsAgain AFAIK, in the first generation no. Extremely close. If you feminise again and produce another line of feminised seed, some reemergence of genetic variety can emerge. I am basing this conversations here btw members, plus other readings. It’s something I remember raising with you as a question (for both of us) in the Candida thread a while back. And all this is this is why
.In sum, AFAIK; First generation feminised seed will produce plants very close to the mother, and if it’s clones of the reversal that are fertilised, they will be extremely close. Almost identical but apparently not quite - I’ve seen folks write/talk about perhaps more vigour in regular female plants. I don’t know if that’s bro-science or no science or known science. Ill
The Celt
Well-Known Member
I think I follow what Amy is getting at now.
We all know how to create female pollen and female seeds, in theory, but there are 2 different crosses we can make from female pollen, from the same strain.
First, we can use that pollen to pollinate another female plant(s) of the same strain and tends to be fairly stable because we introduce more genes (from the other females). Even though all the plants are the same chemovar (strain) they are not all genetically identical.
Secondly, and I think this is what Amy is referring to, we can “self” cross with that pollen. Use the pollen to pollinate a clone of the pollen donor. Here we only have one set of genes producing seed, giving us offspring that are not “clones” of the mom, but can only have whatever genes mom had. There is evidence from breeders suggesting that this an unlock dormant and recessive genes that would not happen in a normal male/female cross or in a feminized cross of different mothers.
For example, and I will use Blue Dream for this as I have self crossed it, with all my seed being descendant from a single plant. I have the HSO cut which is a cross of Blueberry and SSH and tends to lean Sativa but has atleast 3 phenos that I know of: heavy Sativa, 50/50 and one that leans Indica. Even though there are these 3 phenos, all the plants are similar enough that the differences are not noticeable to the majority.
By self crossing one of my plants, I may have lost a gene that normally would be expressed in Blue Dream because that particular mom was a pheno that didn’t have a copy in her DNA. Conversely, she may have had a dormant gene from one of the parents that gets unlocked by this process, maybe a gene that is responsible for CBD production giving her a higher level of CBD.
Selective breeding, which is what we are doing when we create new chemovars, can be fun and exasperating at the same time, but something that we as humans have been doing since we stopped being hunter/gatherers.
For all you who like chicken, this guy is likely the grandpappy of the modern chicken, the Jungle Fowl native to India:
One more thing to add to the discussion:
Usually, breeders are searching for the lack of a dominant gene. We want the recessive combinations, meaning we want chemovars that don't ruin things with the common dominant gene. In that case, it would be counterproductive to breed outside the narrow genetics, so you'd self it, hoping to keep the recessive.
Inbreeding vs outbreeding.
Usually, breeders are searching for the lack of a dominant gene. We want the recessive combinations, meaning we want chemovars that don't ruin things with the common dominant gene. In that case, it would be counterproductive to breed outside the narrow genetics, so you'd self it, hoping to keep the recessive.
Inbreeding vs outbreeding.
graytail is right. in many cases breeders are even looking to bring a desirable trait out, often expressed through the recessive gene.
Yes all of that. Exactly But what I was actually trying to talk about is a next step in the conversation. I.e., what we encounter when reversing a plant that was already grown from feminised seed. (Like this Candida, for example)
So I’m specifically talking about ‘selfing’ a plant whose seed came from a plant grown from ‘selfed’ seed. A selfie of a selfie, so to speak. Which is what we’re doing if we try to reverse a ‘feminised’ female plant.
The main thing I was aiming at was just raising the question that maybe this particular chemovar, now feminised, is super stable and just can’t be turned. It happens sometimes.
The second thing coming out of that was, when you do succeed in reversing a plant that was already grown from feminised seed, the resulting outcome can be the reintroduction of some genetic variety in the line (and often undoing some stability).
But my initial post on this was really the simple thought that maybe this Candida worm won’t turn.
But what I was actually trying to talk about is a next step in the conversation. I.e., what we encounter when reversing a plant that was already grown from feminised seed. (Like this Candida, for example)So I’m specifically talking about ‘selfing’ a plant whose seed came from a plant grown from ‘selfed’ seed. A selfie of a selfie, so to speak. Which is what we’re doing if we try to reverse a ‘feminised’ female plant.
The main thing I was aiming at was just raising the question that maybe this particular chemovar, now feminised, is super stable and just can’t be turned. It happens sometimes.
The second thing coming out of that was, when you do succeed in reversing a plant that was already grown from feminised seed, the resulting outcome can be the reintroduction of some genetic variety in the line (and often undoing some stability).
But my initial post on this was really the simple thought that maybe this Candida worm won’t turn.
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Pardon my absence. Offine today, back tomorrow.
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