Noob's First Grow: Indoor, Coco, 4 Plants

[Asesino85]

Roger dodger, thank you! Think happy thoughts about them. Really appreciate all of you brainstorming with me on this.

I personally think it’s transplant stress. Typically the lower node of leaves will start to yellow. This is due to the roots not getting a foothold right away so the plant begins to eat itself to obtain the necessary nutrients to keep going. If you don’t get anything that looks like a problem on the new growth then you should be just fine. I will say that I don’t think I’ve ever had them have spots when that has happened but I could be wrong. I can’t even remember the last journal where I had that happen at or I’d go look for you. Once a plant decides to eat a leaf for nutrients then that leaf is done it won’t ever go back to full green so just keep an eye on the new growth. Also if the environment changed when you transplanted (new tent, more light, etc.) then that could be causing extra stress that the plant had to get used to. Transplanting is a bad time to change anything until you see the plants start have new growth and take a foothold in their new homes.

Also it is very hard for a plant to become rootbound in coco as long as it stays wet/damp. I’ve had plants in small containers for months and they just stopped growing but when I put them in the new homes they took off. The bud didn’t turn out fantastic and I’m not saying to do that but the plant never chocked itself out due to the roots being rootbound.

 

[The Bard]

I personally think it’s transplant stress. Typically the lower node of leaves will start to yellow. This is due to the roots not getting a foothold right away so the plant begins to eat itself to obtain the necessary nutrients to keep going. If you don’t get anything that looks like a problem on the new growth then you should be just fine. I will say that I don’t think I’ve ever had them have spots when that has happened but I could be wrong. I can’t even remember the last journal where I had that happen at or I’d go look for you. Once a plant decides to eat a leaf for nutrients then that leaf is done it won’t ever go back to full green so just keep an eye on the new growth. Also if the environment changed when you transplanted (new tent, more light, etc.) then that could be causing extra stress that the plant had to get used to. Transplanting is a bad time to change anything until you see the plants start have new growth and take a foothold in their new homes.

Also it is very hard for a plant to become rootbound in coco as long as it stays wet/damp. I’ve had plants in small containers for months and they just stopped growing but when I put them in the new homes they took off. The bud didn’t turn out fantastic and I’m not saying to do that but the plant never chocked itself out due to the roots being rootbound.

Thanks Asesino. Another good possibility/diagnosis. I'm guessing that it is some combination of factors that several folks have mentioned here. The shock of transplant, lights being too close, nutrient solution being a tad too strong, and maybe a wobble with pH (apart from all that, I'm doing everything right - LOL). Will definitely keep an eye on the newer leaves.

 

[Asesino85]

Thanks Asesino. Another good possibility/diagnosis. I'm guessing that it is some combination of factors that several folks have mentioned here. The shock of transplant, lights being too close, nutrient solution being a tad too strong, and maybe a wobble with pH (apart from all that, I'm doing everything right - LOL). Will definitely keep an eye on the newer leaves.

I agree with you on a number of factors there. I always tell people not to change more than 1 variable at a time. That way you know what to blame it on. If you've adjusted PH, weakened the nutrient solution, changed something about the lights and transplanted all at the same time, you really can't tell what happened. If I were you next time this happens I'd really just adjust one thing and wait a couple days to see if the problems gets worse or better. These plants are resilient (especially in the veg stage) and they are very hard to kill. In coco you can change things in an instant so even if they are on their last limb (which yours are far far away from) you can save them. It's worth the knowledge and experience by letting them possibly get worse just to be able to pinpoint the problem and learn from it. We can help you but each one of us experienced growers might come up with a different answer for the problem. Derby for instance might be right this time about the overfeeding and we might be following a different thread and say the same things in the other (assuming they have a plant that is doing the same thing as your GSC) and I might be right about the transplant stress in that thread. Either way if you just change things one at a time and figure out what it is for sure, that knowledge is invaluable for the rest of your growing life.

With all that being said I will try and narrow it down a bit for you.

1. If the nutrients were too strong you would see the tips of the leaves burning. If the plant is really dark green it more than likely means you might be a little heavy on Nitrogen, however my plants are really dark green until flower most of the time. @Mr. Magoo uses Doc's soil kit which is almost a perfect kit for growing in soil and you should see how dark green his leaves get. Hit POTM submission this month is a perfect example. Also I use my own schedule as a guide but there have been plenty of times I've measured the EC/PPM and it was hundreds over and I just said screw it and dumped it in and never saw any sort of overfed problems. Once again I am not saying that isn't the problem here but for these reasons I really don't think it's that in my opinion. Key word, opinion.

2. PH is an interesting subject but I don't PH anything at all. 5.8-6.2 is a very detailed place to be in terms of PH. You really could be anywhere between 5.5-6.5 and the plants would be fine. I did a write up in my thread recently on PH and if you haven't seen it take a look. It is just a theory after all but I think it makes sense on how to use PH with coco.

3. @Dutchman1990 I believe had sort of droopy plants in relation to changing lights and light intensity during the grow. I think 3 out of 4 of his plants recovered when he raised the lights and one just was droopy the whole way but ended up doing fine. As stated by someone prior, different lights can also give off different heat but I think the droopyness is more so from the intensity and not the heat, especially if your temp and RH seem to be stable and not all over the place.

4. Lastly, I believe you mentioned not being able to get the Great White Mycorrhizae but ever since I sprinkled this stuff in the holes before transplant, I haven't had a single issue with transplant stress. The stuff is like steroids for your roots and they just immediately take off. It's spendy but the same jar has lasted me forever and I only use it during transplant. Liquid stuff (like rapidstart) is great to put in with your feeds but the dry powder really gets direct contact with the roots when you sprinkle it in the transplant hole.

 

[Old Salt]

@Asesino85 Well said!

 

[Asesino85]

@Asesino85 Well said!

 

[The Bard]

I agree with you on a number of factors there. I always tell people not to change more than 1 variable at a time. That way you know what to blame it on. If you've adjusted PH, weakened the nutrient solution, changed something about the lights and transplanted all at the same time, you really can't tell what happened. If I were you next time this happens I'd really just adjust one thing and wait a couple days to see if the problems gets worse or better. These plants are resilient (especially in the veg stage) and they are very hard to kill. In coco you can change things in an instant so even if they are on their last limb (which yours are far far away from) you can save them. It's worth the knowledge and experience by letting them possibly get worse just to be able to pinpoint the problem and learn from it. We can help you but each one of us experienced growers might come up with a different answer for the problem. Derby for instance might be right this time about the overfeeding and we might be following a different thread and say the same things in the other (assuming they have a plant that is doing the same thing as your GSC) and I might be right about the transplant stress in that thread. Either way if you just change things one at a time and figure out what it is for sure, that knowledge is invaluable for the rest of your growing life.

With all that being said I will try and narrow it down a bit for you.

1. If the nutrients were too strong you would see the tips of the leaves burning. If the plant is really dark green it more than likely means you might be a little heavy on Nitrogen, however my plants are really dark green until flower most of the time. @Mr. Magoo uses Doc's soil kit which is almost a perfect kit for growing in soil and you should see how dark green his leaves get. Hit POTM submission this month is a perfect example. Also I use my own schedule as a guide but there have been plenty of times I've measured the EC/PPM and it was hundreds over and I just said screw it and dumped it in and never saw any sort of overfed problems. Once again I am not saying that isn't the problem here but for these reasons I really don't think it's that in my opinion. Key word, opinion.

2. PH is an interesting subject but I don't PH anything at all. 5.8-6.2 is a very detailed place to be in terms of PH. You really could be anywhere between 5.5-6.5 and the plants would be fine. I did a write up in my thread recently on PH and if you haven't seen it take a look. It is just a theory after all but I think it makes sense on how to use PH with coco.

3. @Dutchman1990 I believe had sort of droopy plants in relation to changing lights and light intensity during the grow. I think 3 out of 4 of his plants recovered when he raised the lights and one just was droopy the whole way but ended up doing fine. As stated by someone prior, different lights can also give off different heat but I think the droopyness is more so from the intensity and not the heat, especially if your temp and RH seem to be stable and not all over the place.

4. Lastly, I believe you mentioned not being able to get the Great White Mycorrhizae but ever since I sprinkled this stuff in the holes before transplant, I haven't had a single issue with transplant stress. The stuff is like steroids for your roots and they just immediately take off. It's spendy but the same jar has lasted me forever and I only use it during transplant. Liquid stuff (like rapidstart) is great to put in with your feeds but the dry powder really gets direct contact with the roots when you sprinkle it in the transplant hole.

Thanks for taking the time for this thoughtful, detailed response. Your method of isolating/eliminating/addressing the variables makes complete sense, especially given the rapid response time of the plant and the growing medium.

I did indeed make two changes at the same time - reducing the EC of the nutrient solution (but keeping the NPK ratios intact) and increasing the distance of the lights. With your constructive criticism in hindsight, it would have been smarter to do one or the other and observe the impact over a few days. My only "excuse" is that I was disappointed (pissed off) when I saw the brown spots and yellowing on the one plant. Not a good reason.

I am going to leave everything status quo as they stand right now, and watch over the next couple of days to see what I can see.

On some of the other great points that you raise:

1) Yes! I did see that amazing plant of @Mr. Magoo 's! I have been reading his journal over the past several days - as you and he suggested, helpful quadlining tutorial to be found there (as well as the growing medium/system). Now those are some beautiful, shiny leaves! Really well-written content throughout the journal as well.

2) I do feel pretty good about my temperature and RH. Both stay in an pretty narrow range around the targets. My old data-logger got pulled out of storage and the thing still works after 15 years of neglect (had been used in a wine fridge back in the good old days).

3) Great White - working on it. In the meantime, I am using small amounts of Voodoo Juice and Rapid Start as well as a single-strain mycorrhizae powder (which went in the holes at up-sizing). So much positive feedback on Great White that I decided to order some a couple of days ago.

Thank you again for this reply - the "isolate the variables" lesson is a powerful one.

 

[Dutchman1990]

Nice breakdown @Asesino85 ans I’m glad your getting things sorted out @The Bard ! There’s so many helpful people on here it’s great to see the following you have brought together!

 

[The Bard]

Nice breakdown @Asesino85 ans I’m glad your getting things sorted out @The Bard ! There’s so many helpful people on here it’s great to see the following you have brought together!

Thank goodness for the knowledge and generosity of all of you!

 

[Mr. Magoo]

Thank goodness for the knowledge and generosity of all of you!

You’re putting in a lot of work and research here. That’s good to see. I think we all love this place because of the generosity of the other members here. I haven’t been here for a real long time but it’s been long enough to see people come and go. But every once in a while there’s one that stands out. I hope you stick around with us! I think you will. And soon enough it will be you answering some of the same questions you’re asking now. Lol
“You’re my boy, Blue!”

 

[Derbybud]

Oh and Great White when you do find it buy the bigger container. 4x as much for twice the price. I use it in all my feedings up until stretch is over. A scoop per 2 gallons. And I also sprinkle it on my roots when transplanting. Great stuff.

 

[The Bard]

You’re putting in a lot of work and research here. That’s good to see. I think we all love this place because of the generosity of the other members here. I haven’t been here for a real long time but it’s been long enough to see people come and go. But every once in a while there’s one that stands out. I hope you stick around with us! I think you will. And soon enough it will be you answering some of the same questions you’re asking now. Lol
“You’re my boy, Blue!”

Thanks! The research has been a lot of fun, and the help from everyone much appreciated. Will do on the container size of the Great White.

 

[Asesino85]

Oh and Great White when you do find it buy the bigger container. 4x as much for twice the price. I use it in all my feedings up until stretch is over. A scoop per 2 gallons. And I also sprinkle it on my roots when transplanting. Great stuff.

I've sworn I was going to try using it all my feedings for a grow (up until stretch was over) and then I just didn't see the point with the liquid Rapidstart version since I bought that at the same time. I still want to try though for a grow and leave the Rapidstart completely out. Do you use a liquid Mychorrizae in addition to Great White?

 

[Derbybud]

I've sworn I was going to try using it all my feedings for a grow (up until stretch was over) and then I just didn't see the point with the liquid Rapidstart version since I bought that at the same time. I still want to try though for a grow and leave the Rapidstart completely out. Do you use a liquid Mychorrizae in addition to Great White?

No just Great White up until I flip and hook up the auto watering system. Then I go with Orca (liquid GW) for my Mychrorrizae and Z7 to keep the slimies away in the rez.

 

[The Bard]

Good evening everyone!

Hope your weekend is off to a fantastic start.

Just a quick fly-by to share a couple of things unrelated to my own grow op (everything on that front is going great - photo update tomorrow).

First, I thought this article was really interesting, given some recent discussion here regarding metrics on light intensity, etc. With the recent legalization of cannabis here in the Great White North, industrial-level growers are expanding rapidly. This one "GreenSeal" (just a couple of hours away from my home) is pretty interesting, given some of the science they are sharing. In this article, they share some experiments they did. Conclusion: intense white-spectrum LEDs drive the highest yields.

From the same grower, a link to one of the THC testing instruments they use. Way out of my budget, until I win the lottery!

Finally, some eye-candy of our dinner tonight. Roasted Cherry-Chipotle Salmon with Lime-Canna-Butter (mango and apple salad on the side). Alas, not yet my own cannabis, but perhaps in six months or so it will be!

Have a great evening.

 

[Old Salt]

Thank you for the link. I've added this paper to my library.

 

[The Bard]

Thank you for the link. I've added this paper to my library.

Fantastic! I am not experienced enough to offer much help on the grow side of the equation, but as I come across interesting articles or resources, I will try to share them here. Glad you found it worth tucking away for future reference.

 

[Old Salt]

Fantastic! I am not experienced enough to offer much help on the grow side of the equation, but as I come across interesting articles or resources, I will try to share them here. Glad you found it worth tucking away for future reference.

As I'm currently building a white COB light that many consider overpowered. I found it very interesting. I may actually get to use all 500W in my 2' X 4' Tent.

 

[Derbybud]

Nice read bard. Thanks

 

[The Bard]

As I'm currently building a white COB light that many consider overpowered. I found it very interesting. I may actually get to use all 500W in my 2' X 4' Tent.

Cool! Can you point me in the direction of an introduction to DIY lighting so that I can follow along with you (at a rudimentary level)? In the meantime, your quote reminded me of the show Home Improvement:

 

[Old Salt]

Tim the Tool Man Taylor

GrowMau5 has a good tutorial on his YouTube channel.

PurpleGunRack has a thread Build Your Own LED Grow Light that will also provide insight.