Panama x Malawi - Probiotic & Organic Indoor Soil Grow

[TheFertilizer]

One thing I have heard repeatedly, don't know if it applies here but I will throw it out there......the more soil you use, the more forgiving soil generally is. Its the main reason I am moving up to 10 gallon pots in my perpetual. I might go through more soil, but I don't mind. You will just need to change your watering schedule. I know for me, If I am in 2 gallon pots I get about 3 days before I have to water. If I am using 5 gallons, I get about 5-6 days depending on the size of the plant. Not sure how long between waterings in 10 gallon pots with my soil.

5 gallons is pretty much the largest I'm willing to run, plus I'm not sure I could really keep that much more soil on hand.

 

[Rider509]

Oh crap, Fert! I turn my back for a minute and all hell breaks loose? I've gotta go back to see what I've missed.

 

[Rider509]

Something looks a little off

A little off? A little off? Holy understatement, Bat Stank! LOL. Those girls look distinctly unhappy. And this is why I don't like soil. Give me RDWC or give me death!
I've seen this problem somewhere, Fert. Don't remember what it was but it sure looks familiar. Time to hit the books! (me, not you)

 

[TheFertilizer]

They look a little better since last time. New growth is still discolored, I decided to give them some pH'd nutrient solution just to get things kick-started.

It's weird to me how much healthier the ones under the T5 look than the ones under the CMH. I mean the T5 is a really big blue spectrum, and the CMH is 3100, but I really don't think red/blue light can make this much difference. I'm almost considering just taking the girls under the T5 that are in 3 gallon pots and flowering them while the ones in 5 gallons recover, but I wonder if after flowering the 3 gallon pot ones the 5 gallon pot ones would be way too huge given the 3 month flower time.

 

[Rider509]

That's a tough one, Fert. It's hard to tell if that's a potassium deficiency, or just light burn. The dying off inside the plant makes me wonder if it's not a combination of the two. I'll have to go back and reread your journal to see if there's something to help understand why your plants are responding that way. It sucks when your plants aren't happy.

 

[Van Stank]

That's a tough one, Fert. It's hard to tell if that's a potassium deficiency, or just light burn. The dying off inside the plant makes me wonder if it's not a combination of the two. I'll have to go back and reread your journal to see if there's something to help understand why your plants are responding that way. It sucks when your plants aren't happy.

I couldn't figure out what exactly it looked like was wrong. Wish I could be more help with it!

 

[TheFertilizer]

That's a tough one, Fert. It's hard to tell if that's a potassium deficiency, or just light burn. The dying off inside the plant makes me wonder if it's not a combination of the two. I'll have to go back and reread your journal to see if there's something to help understand why your plants are responding that way. It sucks when your plants aren't happy.

Hmmm light-burn is one I hadn't thought of. I'm using a 315 W CMH with a 3100K spectrum, and I've got it about 16" above the plants. I've generally seen these lights tested at 24" or more so maybe I need to raise it. These CMH bulbs do have crazy PAR:watt ratios and are high in UV. I've never grown with taking UV into account.

 

[Spec420]

Read, toked, read some more, subbed....little late, but don't want to miss out!

 

[TheFertilizer]

Spec420, I'm starting up on new plants now so most of the pertinent information will be in the first couple of pages, as far as information on my soil mix and stuff goes. Only thing different now is I'm using a 315 W CMH instead of a 400 W HPS.

Speaking of which, it was definitely too close to the plants. I raised it 24" above the smallest one, only about 16" above the taller one, and the taco'ing went away. Also looks like better light distribution at this level. I'm going to watch the nodes for too much stretch but I think 24" is the best height with this light.

Seriously though I'm in a bit of a dilemma. The plants under the T5 look fantastic--well okay comparatively. Anyway, they're practically ready to flower now, maybe a couple more weeks veg time until they're as big as the ones in the 5 gallon buckets under the CMH--but I don't now how long those will take to get back on the mend, and I kind of wonder if I shouldn't just take the ones in my 3 gallon pots and flower them now ( or in 1-2 weeks ). I had planned to do a seed crop so I was going to start flowering them under the T5 and sex-change them with colloidal silver, then wait a couple weeks to flower the ones under the CMH then collect the pollen and pollinate the CMH-lighted females to make S1 seeds out of all these.

So yeah I'm not really sure which plan I want to go for, but I want to get flowering soon because I don't think I'm gonna be running through the summer, it's just way too damn hot and I'm going to try to find a new place. I need to crop out big time to get me through spring/summer and ready to crop for next winter. I'm a little nervous, things aren't going well and my yield at optimum has never been large enough to sustain that. Eeek.

 

[Rider509]

I need to crop out big time to get me through spring/summer and ready to crop for next winter. I'm a little nervous, things aren't going well and my yield at optimum has never been large enough to sustain that. Eeek.

And the prices in the rec stores are insane. $10 to $15 a gram? Who the hell can afford that?

 

[TheMadDabber]

And the prices in the rec stores are insane. $10 to $15 a gram? Who the hell can afford that?

It's 20 here.... 100 for a gram of wax ....

 

[TheFertilizer]

And the prices in the rec stores are insane. $10 to $15 a gram? Who the hell can afford that?

Right? Not me, plus the stuff they sell for the price at the stores isn't even that decent quality.

It's 20 here.... 100 for a gram of wax ....

Wow man, 100 a gram for wax is nuts man. That suuuucks.


I'm still scratching my head over what's up with the plants. It looks like some kind of magnesium issue, but I don't think it's a lack of it. My soil test showed substantial amounts of both calcium and magnesium, but I'm not sure the ratio is right, though I remember bob taking a looking at it and thinking it looked good. The soil in the 5 gallon buckets is a little bit different as I'd run out and had to start mixing in Sunshine #4 with my hot-mix, but I don't know how dissimilar it should really be and the ones in the tested soil are showing slight signs of this as well. Reading up, I found that sometimes excesses can cause a slowed uptake of magnesium, especially in larger plants. So it might make since why the problem is more pronounced in the large plants, and especially ones with more light ( doing more photosynthesis ). Still I'm not really sure what the actual problem may be, because the pH is right about 7 so the only thing I can think of is excess nutrients instead of a deficit. There's not really much I can do for that either since unlike synthetic nutrients, I can't just flush the pot to equalize things. I may have to just flower these like this...

Does anybody know if the fact that they're monster cropped could have anything to do with this? It's such a shame, I was really stoked at the branching on these.

Ones in 5 gallon buckets under a 315 W CMH

The ones in the 3 gallon pots under the T5 are much healthier looking, but still showing some issues...

I'm gonna try making giving them some tea on their next water. I fed with a really light EarthJuice nutrient solution last time, mostly to try to feed the soil microbes more than the plant, but it looks like they've improved, so I do think there's some issues with my herd and I'm not gonna be able to go water-only from here on out.

I really can't help the feeling that this has something to do with the frequent spinosad spraying, so I've tried to lessen the frequency from every 2 days to every 3 because I think some of the runoff is keeping the soil too moist and that is part of the problem. I don't feel like the possibility of it being a problem of excess is as great as it being a problem with the soil being too wet, because ever since these were transplanted, the soil has not had much time to dry out. Then logic follows, that the 3 gallon pots dried faster, and wouldn't you know it, those are healthier. According to Jorge, excessively moist soil can block magnesium as well.

 

[Rider509]

When in doubt, flush. A good flush with lots of plain pHed water will strip out any salt buildup and give you a fresh slate to work from. Eliminate the variables, so to speak. I can't imagine it'd hurt the soil bio-life you're trying to foster.

There's not really much I can do for that either since unlike synthetic nutrients, I can't just flush the pot to equalize things.

Why? I know nothing about your method of growing.

 

[Blazinjones]

When in doubt, flush. A good flush with lots of plain pHed water will strip out any salt buildup and give you a fresh slate to work from. Eliminate the variables, so to speak. I can't imagine it'd hurt the soil bio-life you're trying to foster.

There's not really much I can do for that either since unlike synthetic nutrients, I can't just flush the pot to equalize things.

Why? I know nothing about your method of growing.

Question about flushing can i use regular tape water for the first few gallons and then the last like 2 or 3 gallons use ro water that I balanced the ph to i think its like 6.5 or 7.0 is good for soil right i been doing hydro for awhile now and forgot the ph for soil lol but yea watever it is can i use tap water first then finish with ro ph'ed water?? Or does it all have to be ph balanced ro water??

 

[TheFertilizer]

When in doubt, flush. A good flush with lots of plain pHed water will strip out any salt buildup and give you a fresh slate to work from. Eliminate the variables, so to speak. I can't imagine it'd hurt the soil bio-life you're trying to foster.

There's not really much I can do for that either since unlike synthetic nutrients, I can't just flush the pot to equalize things.

Why? I know nothing about your method of growing.

Well there's a few little things that are different with soil growing, at least with probiotic soil growing like this. Flushing is pretty bad for the micro-life from what I have read, but beyond that I don't think it would actually serve the same purpose. With organic based nutrients like the ones I'm using there's not really salts to wash away, because most of the actual NPK and other stuff that the plants take up gets excreted by the soil microbes eating up the things like neem meal, bone meal, etc. It's not really very similar to the types of salt-based fertilizers in synthetics, and since it would kill my microbes ( or at least leave them severely unhealthy ) it would be pretty counter-productive. Even if not, then the other problem is the microbes would have to digest more of the organic matter to build-up more of the nutrients so the soil would be quite barren and I'd be forced to rely on bottled nutrients the rest of the way through. It's kind of a last resort I'm trying to avoid.

I mean I think I could do it, I'm pretty sure it would just convert my soil to soil-less.

Question about flushing can i use regular tape water for the first few gallons and then the last like 2 or 3 gallons use ro water that I balanced the ph to i think its like 6.5 or 7.0 is good for soil right i been doing hydro for awhile now and forgot the ph for soil lol but yea watever it is can i use tap water first then finish with ro ph'ed water?? Or does it all have to be ph balanced ro water??

I've always wondered that too. When I was using flora nova and had to flush I just used normal tap water and then pH'd the last 5 gallons I'd pour through and it always seemed to remedy things.

 

[Rider509]

Question about flushing can i use regular tape water for the first few gallons and then the last like 2 or 3 gallons use ro water that I balanced the ph to i think its like 6.5 or 7.0 is good for soil right i been doing hydro for awhile now and forgot the ph for soil lol but yea watever it is can i use tap water first then finish with ro ph'ed water?? Or does it all have to be ph balanced ro water??

I've flushed with plain water in the shower and finished with plain water pHed for soil. It always seemed to work the magic.

 

[Van Stank]

And the prices in the rec stores are insane. $10 to $15 a gram? Who the hell can afford that?

Yep....and the dispensaries generally are only paying the growers 3-4 bucks a gram. Some of the crappy growers only get 2 bucks a gram. Fuck that.

 

[Van Stank]

I've flushed with plain water in the shower and finished with plain water pHed for soil. It always seemed to work the magic.

Fert....one thing to consider, (Depending on how bad your crop really is getting) is if the risk of messing up the herd is worth possibly repairing whatever your issue is. I certainly understand your hesitancy to flush your organic soil. But I also am not one to let my boat sink before I try to a different solution. Again not telling to flush or not to flush, but if the stuff you are trying isn't working....and things aren't improving.....it might be worth taking a shot on one plant and see how it responds. If it goes down hill, well you know not to try it on the other plants. It it works, well....do it on the other ones. Just my input brother.

 

[TheFertilizer]

Yep....and the dispensaries generally are only paying the growers 3-4 bucks a gram. Some of the crappy growers only get 2 bucks a gram. Fuck that.

I don't really understand how there's that much overhead on things. The rec stores only sell the garbage for less than $10 a gram so I wonder how much they paid for that.

Fert....one thing to consider, (Depending on how bad your crop really is getting) is if the risk of messing up the herd is worth possibly repairing whatever your issue is. I certainly understand your hesitancy to flush your organic soil. But I also am not one to let my boat sink before I try to a different solution. Again not telling to flush or not to flush, but if the stuff you are trying isn't working....and things aren't improving.....it might be worth taking a shot on one plant and see how it responds. If it goes down hill, well you know not to try it on the other plants. It it works, well....do it on the other ones. Just my input brother.

Well I agree but I don't think they're in that dire straits right now. They just look a little funky, they've been getting better though, so I don't really want to do too much too soon. Bob briefly suggested EWC and kelp meal, but I sure as hell don't have money for kelp meal--they want like $20 for a box of it down at the grow store. So I guess I'll be waiting until next payday and hoping they get better between then and now.

 

[Rider509]

I don't really understand how there's that much overhead on things. The rec stores only sell the garbage for less than $10 a gram so I wonder how much they paid for that.

I know a rec store owner that in some cases is only paying 70 cents per gram and selling at market prices. The grower takes all the risk and the retailers get rich.