Keffka's Recycling, KOS Blue Thai, Herbies Seeds Apple Betty, Runtz Punch

[SmokingWings]

I don’t believe anyone from the past didn’t know better about any of this. They did, they didn’t care. This whole talk about how great the country used to be is such horseshit.

They are afraid of change. A change in available information means a change in the way they look at or interpret their surroundings. And if they have to start to look at and interpret their surroundings that is 'work' that they feel has no reward as in getting a paycheck or improving any part of their life.

As this relates to growing, the number of people who will not look up or research basic information on the plant, soil, nutrients and so on is astounding. They end up having to ask basic questions over and over and over and it often seems they do not understand the answers.

Back on the Phosphorous topic I am another week closer to my planned "cutting session" when I will be taking new bare cuttings off of a mother plant Blue Dream and a Peanut Butter Cup. Maybe even a Wedding Mints mother but I am doubting it since I want that strain will be out of my life within several months.

If I get rid of the Wedding Mint mothers and clones I will have room for several of the "Jokerz 31" seeds someone was nice enough to get for us.

 

[Azimuth]

As this relates to growing, the number of people who will not look up or research basic information on the plant, soil, nutrients and so on is astounding. They end up having to ask basic questions over and over and over and it often seems they do not understand the answers.

Not everyone learns the same way and I think there there is real value in asking those basic questions here with growers we trust rather than random places on the internet. I do both, but often get much better and more thorough answers to questions that might spark a round of different inputs from those much more knowledgeable on the subject than many articles and posts about a specific topic.

Plus, asking here allows followup questions that you can't ask on research papers and many articles and posts.

We mostly all started from scratch and the information needed on all the topics required can be a bit overwhelming.

The collective knowledge base on this site is incredible.

 

[Keffka]

Not everyone learns the same way and I think there there is real value in asking those basic questions here with growers we trust rather than random places on the internet. I do both, but often get much better and more thorough answers to questions that might spark a round of different inputs from those much more knowledgeable on the subject than many articles and posts about a specific topic.

Plus, asking here allows followup questions that you can't ask on research papers and many articles and posts.

We mostly all started from scratch and the information needed on all the topics required can be a bit overwhelming.

The collective knowledge base on this site is incredible.

While I agree with what you’re saying, and I believe @SmokingWings does as well, I think his implication was those who ask questions with no intent on actually learning or putting effort into learning.

Asking questions is one thing, asking the same question repeatedly without any effort on your part to figure it out is another. I don’t mind having to explain something multiple times in multiple ways if you’re putting the effort in. I do mind explaining the same thing over and over again if you can’t be bothered to at least try and figure it out on your own. Growing requires initiative and critical thought, I can’t hold your hand through your whole grow.

I’m not saying you specifically just in general. A lot of people want to just be told what to do without any effort or thought on their part. It explains a whole lot about the current state of the world actually.

 

[Azimuth]

While I agree with what you’re saying, and I believe @SmokingWings does as well, I think his implication was those who ask questions with no intent on actually learning or putting effort into learning.

Asking questions is one thing, asking the same question repeatedly without any effort on your part to figure it out is another. I don’t mind having to explain something multiple times in multiple ways if you’re putting the effort in. I do mind explaining the same thing over and over again if you can’t be bothered to at least try and figure it out on your own. Growing requires initiative and critical thought, I can’t hold your hand through your whole grow.

I’m not saying you specifically just in general. A lot of people want to just be told what to do without any effort or thought on their part. It explains a whole lot about the current state of the world actually.

That's fair. Most of those casual growers looking for easy answers will fade away pretty quickly since if you don't put in the effort you likely won't grow very good plants and it won't turn out as fun as you thought it would be.

 

[SmokingWings]

I think there there is real value in asking those basic questions here with growers we trust rather than random places on the internet. I do both, but often get much better and more thorough answers to questions that might spark a round of different inputs from those much more knowledgeable on the subject than many articles and posts about a specific topic

I think his implication was those who ask questions with no intent on actually learning or putting effort into learning.

Asking questions is one thing, asking the same question repeatedly without any effort on your part to figure it out is another. I don’t mind having to explain something multiple times in multiple ways if you’re putting the effort in. I do mind explaining the same thing over and over again if you can’t be bothered to at least try and figure it out on your own. Growing requires initiative and critical thought, I can’t hold your hand through your whole grow.

Basically yes to all the points. How hard is if for a new grower to spend 5 minutes looking up the three macro nutrients needed by the plants and learn the basics of why they are called the most important. I doubt that anyone is expecting a new grower to research the top three and then be able to write a high school level term paper. I do not understand how we can expect these growers to be able to handle the basics of using something as simple as a fertilizer if they do not know why it is needed and especially if they have no interest in knowing.

They want to be spoon fed the answer to the problem they got themselves into. They do not want to know how avoid it in the future because they do not have the time or desire to know.

And something that boggles my mind is how can someone say that all they have to do is ask the question and get the answer. They say they do not have to look up the simplest of the basics because someone else has already done it for them. If that attitude is really a good idea for learning "then how do they know that they came even close to asking the right question"? No wonder we have to keep repeating the basics over and over.

 

[SmokingWings]

Most of those casual growers looking for easy answers will fade away pretty quickly since if you don't put in the effort you likely won't grow very good plants and it won't turn out as fun as you thought it would be.

Yep. I cringe every time I read an intro from a new grower who says that they have never grown any kind of plant before nor have they ever planted a seed. Then they mention that they have just dumped several hundred dollars or euros or whatever into a new tent, lights, filters, fans and then just order several hundred more dollars worth of seeds. Finally they end up mentioning that they will have a lot of fun because this growing will be their new hobby.

All I can think is that they will be in for a rude awakening when they find out that the money they spent ended up leaving them with equipment with a low resale value, if any at all. Yet they do not understand that gardening becomes a hobby after they have gardened and it is not something that will fall into their lap.

 

[SmokingWings]

A lot of people want to just be told what to do without any effort or thought on their part. It explains a whole lot about the current state of the world actually.

Teachers, educators, and even those that hire for larger companies are now saying that up to 50% of young adults who have graduated from high school cannot read above a 7th to 8th grade level. And that now kids of 9, 10, or 11 years old cannot repeat the letters in the alphabet in order; actually a large percentage of them do not know more than the first 5 or 6 letters in order.

 

[StoneOtter]

It's a scary place out there!

 

[Keffka]

Teachers, educators, and even those that hire for larger companies are now saying that up to 50% of young adults who have graduated from high school cannot read above a 7th to 8th grade level. And that now kids of 9, 10, or 11 years old cannot repeat the letters in the alphabet in order; actually a large percentage of them do not know more than the first 5 or 6 letters in order.

I’m unsurprised. The writing was on the wall when I was in school 30 years ago. By the time my oldest hit third grade I knew it was even worse so we just pulled them out.

I can teach my children what they need to know, and the truth of it, far better than any institution beholden to government or religion. I already have multiple paths for either of them to attend university if they’d like so there’s no point at all in school. Plus they won’t be subjected to any of the traumas most school kids are, so it’s positive all around.

 

[Keffka]

Broke down the root balls and shredded the roots up

Added the root balls to the bin, threw in some new soil, added a bit of water and mixed it all up. I’ll be adding a few light amendments and some EWC this week to really kickstart the process. The soil will be ready to go in 30-45 days so I’ll start looking at sprouting soon.

 

[Keffka]

So after looking at each root ball, sifting the roots, and doing a little mental math I’ve decided this harvest that just occurred was only about 50% of what was available in the soil, maybe less. This means that any amendments I planned on adding like coco, and meals, will need to be cut in half.

Im undecided on my minerals. I think there’s more than enough in the soil still but minerals are also something I don’t want to be adding after the fact. I think I will hold off on everything but calcium and see what the plants do. I think I’ll provide the calcium through gypsum so I can keep my sulfur levels good.

Anything jumping out at you that I’m missing for the recycle @Gee64 ?

 

[Gee64]

So after looking at each root ball, sifting the roots, and doing a little mental math I’ve decided this harvest that just occurred was only about 50% of what was available in the soil, maybe less. This means that any amendments I planned on adding like coco, and meals, will need to be cut in half.

Im undecided on my minerals. I think there’s more than enough in the soil still but minerals are also something I don’t want to be adding after the fact. I think I will hold off on everything but calcium and see what the plants do. I think I’ll provide the calcium through gypsum so I can keep my sulfur levels good.

Anything jumping out at you that I’m missing for the recycle @Gee64 ?

I usually follow the Rev's rebuild recipe to keep my soil in balance. You have options. You could reduce pot size, or veg to a larger size, or reduce the strength of the soil. If I were reducing the soil I would keep it the same strength, then cut it with used soil, coco, ewc, and then perlite it to how you like it, but I wouldn't throw the mix-balance off on the rebuild. Stick with a proven recipe and just cut the finished mix. You need your ratios.

 

[Keffka]

I usually follow the Rev's rebuild recipe to keep my soil in balance. You have options. You could reduce pot size, or veg to a larger size, or reduce the strength of the soil. If I were reducing the soil I would keep it the same strength, then cut it with used soil, coco, ewc, and then perlite it to how you like it, but I wouldn't throw the mix-balance off on the rebuild. Stick with a proven recipe and just cut the finished mix. You need your ratios.

So I get what you’re saying about maintaining the balance but my thought process is, if the plants only used half of what was available, and I go throwing more minerals on top of that, isn’t that going to send it off balance eventually?

For example, @StoneOtter has been running Revs mixes for a while. He had a soil test done and found his P was way high and he needed to back off amending it. This tells me that continuing with the same recipe will eventually throw your balance off since certain elements will continue to build up over time.

Now that I type that out I think I see the problem. There’s no way for me to know what does or doesn’t need to be added without a soil test or without running plants through it, so in your mind it’s better to stick to the script and adjust from there as you see your plants reflect it.

 

[Gee64]

So I get what you’re saying about maintaining the balance but my thought process is, if the plants only used half of what was available, and I go throwing more minerals on top of that, isn’t that going to send it off balance eventually?

For example, @StoneOtter has been running Revs mixes for a while. He had a soil test done and found his P was way high and he needed to back off amending it. This tells me that continuing with the same recipe will eventually throw your balance off since certain elements will continue to build up over time.

Now that I type that out I think I see the problem. There’s no way for me to know what does or doesn’t need to be added without a soil test or without running plants through it, so in your mind it’s better to stick to the script and adjust from there as you see your plants reflect it.

OK i see what you are saying. Yeah theres no real way to know without a test. You could reuse it with only EWC and some coco added, and grow it out. Just be ready to rescue in case it doesn't make it.

This is where the 3 equal parts of new soil, used soil, and coco get important. If it all doesn't get used, say only half does, it's only really a half of a third of a pot that gets left unused. The rest is coco and EWC.

You could always rebuild it but cut the recipe in half to lower inputs in balance.

I like trying things, and I have the luxury of a stash that is rather large, so I would grow it again without reammendment, just EWC and coco, to see what happens.

If it works, then rebuild it and cut the mix at potting with 1 part new Rev's soil, 1 part coco, and 1 part used soil, then perlite to your preference.

Or use smaller pots, or veg bigger plants.

Smaller pots equals a smaller rootball, so your yield will be smaller, but you can fit more smaller pots in the tent to offset the smaller yield and it equals out. More trimmimg tho. And smaller prime colas. But smoke quality doesn't depreciate in a smaller pot, just size/yield.

This is kinda how I got to where I'm at. Big pots cut into a third new soil, a third used soil, and a third coco. I mix that up, then add perlite. Then I mix EWC and perlite in a seperate tub. Then I use 3 parts of the soil mix with 1 part of the EWC mix.

So my final mix is 3 parts soil (equal parts new soil, used soil, and coco, then perlited) and 1 EWC/perlite. I run my perlite at about 25%. So a 10 gal pot is only 2.5 gals of each new soil, used soil, coco, EWC, then you perlite it to your preference. This is how you end up with a lot of extra soil, it grows.

I say perlite to your preference, because both the rebuilt soil and the used soil already contain perlite, but the coco and EWC don't (my EWC does, I use used soil in my worm farm) so mix your soil all up, then perlite it to how you like it, and expect left over soil. The cooking process will kill myco so the used soil mixed with new rebuilt soil that has been cooked, reinnoculates it.

That sounds confusing so to clarify, this is my full process on rebuilding.

1 part pre-cooked rebuilt Rev's Mix.
1 part coco.
1 part used soil.
Perlite to your preference.

Then 3 parts of that mix is mixed with 1 part of EWC that has been cut with perlite already. Then mix and possibly add a bit more perlite.

Then plant in it. Expect leftover soil after potting.

Then if the entire pot doesn't get eaten, half of whats left is coco and EWC, a quarter is twice-used soil, and a quarter is your rebuilt Rev's mix. It stabalizes the mix and if you still have mileage left in the pot then use a smaller pot or veg longer. If it didn't make the finish line, use a bigger pot.

It took me a couple years of non-stop growing to settle in on 10gal pots, and they work for me using Durban Poison and manifolds all grown in that pot from sprout. You need to fiddle to find your size for your grow style/strain.

My veggie garden got quite a few pots of (s)crap soil until I got it right. Rev is cryptic in how he adds his coco and ewc.

Now that I understand that big LED's don't require more calcium and magnesium if you don't turn them up higher than the plant can handle, and don't use CO2, I'm going back to his actual recipe.

The extra calcium puts you too close to the line of disaster. It grows really well, but it makes the pots go farther which screws up rebuilds. My last grow left about 30% behind. I could have gotten to finish on 7gals, but I'm going to stick with 10gals and go back to the calcium levels in his recipe.

When I had to soak the pots to correct them, the extra calcium ignited and I got bad tip burn.

Sorry for the long post but this is a grey zone in Rev's recipes. It's hard to decipher what he means. He never actually walks you thru his full process step by step. He gives you all the pieces but you need to put them together. Once you get pot size correct, the rebuilds go better.

Aproximately 90% of the dry matter in a plant (whats left after water is removed) comes from the air. (47% carbon, 43% oxygen is what makes up 90% of the dry weight of a plant. 3% hydrogen, so again free from water) the rest is what you have to pay for. The coco is for the microbes. The perlite doesn't add any nutrition, so half your pot isn't for the plant.

So take out the coco and perlite, and half of what is left is used soil, and half is fresh rebuilt soil.

So your newly rebuilt Rev's soil is only about 25% of the pot.

Another option would be to mix your leftover soil 50/50 with commercial soil, add EWC and perlite, and grow that out.
Stick with the same pot sizes so you can compare. Then next grow you can adjust pot sizes accordingly.

 

[Keffka]

OK i see what you are saying. Yeah theres no real way to know without a test. You could reuse it with only EWC and some coco added, and grow it out. Just be ready to rescue in case it doesn't make it.

This is where the 3 equal parts of new soil, used soil, and coco get important. If it all doesn't get used, say only half does, it's only really a half of a third of a pot that gets left unused. The rest is coco and EWC.

You could always rebuild it but cut the recipe in half to lower inputs in balance.

I like trying things, and I have the luxury of a stash that is rather large, so I would grow it again without reammendment, just EWC and coco, to see what happens.

If it works, then rebuild it and cut the mix at potting with 1 part new Rev's soil, 1 part coco, and 1 part used soil, then perlite to your preference.

Or use smaller pots, or veg bigger plants.

Smaller pots equals a smaller rootball, so your yield will be smaller, but you can fit more smaller pots in the tent to offset the smaller yield and it equals out. More trimmimg tho. And smaller prime colas. But smoke quality doesn't depreciate in a smaller pot, just size/yield.

This is kinda how I got to where I'm at. Big pots cut into a third new soil, a third used soil, and a third coco. I mix that up, then add perlite. Then I mix EWC and perlite in a seperate tub. Then I use 3 parts of the soil mix with 1 part of the EWC mix.

So my final mix is 3 parts soil (equal parts new soil, used soil, and coco, then perlited) and 1 EWC/perlite. I run my perlite at about 25%. So a 10 gal pot is only 2.5 gals of each new soil, used soil, coco, EWC, then you perlite it to your preference. This is how you end up with a lot of extra soil, it grows.

I say perlite to your preference, because both the rebuilt soil and the used soil already contain perlite, but the coco and EWC don't (my EWC does, I use used soil in my worm farm) so mix your soil all up, then perlite it to how you like it, and expect left over soil. The cooking process will kill myco so the used soil mixed with new rebuilt soil that has been cooked, reinnoculates it.

That sounds confusing so to clarify, this is my full process on rebuilding.

1 part pre-cooked rebuilt Rev's Mix.
1 part coco.
1 part used soil.
Perlite to your preference.

Then 3 parts of that mix is mixed with 1 part of EWC that has been cut with perlite already. Then mix and possibly add a bit more perlite.

Then plant in it. Expect leftover soil after potting.

Then if the entire pot doesn't get eaten, half of whats left is coco and EWC, a quarter is twice-used soil, and a quarter is your rebuilt Rev's mix. It stabalizes the mix and if you still have mileage left in the pot then use a smaller pot or veg longer. If it didn't make the finish line, use a bigger pot.

It took me a couple years of non-stop growing to settle in on 10gal pots, and they work for me using Durban Poison and manifolds all grown in that pot from sprout. You need to fiddle to find your size for your grow style/strain.

My veggie garden got quite a few pots of (s)crap soil until I got it right. Rev is cryptic in how he adds his coco and ewc.

Now that I understand that big LED's don't require more calcium and magnesium if you don't turn them up higher than the plant can handle, and don't use CO2, I'm going back to his actual recipe.

The extra calcium puts you too close to the line of disaster. It grows really well, but it makes the pots go farther which screws up rebuilds. My last grow left about 30% behind. I could have gotten to finish on 7gals, but I'm going to stick with 10gals and go back to the calcium levels in his recipe.

When I had to soak the pots to correct them, the extra calcium ignited and I got bad tip burn.

Sorry for the long post but this is a grey zone in Rev's recipes. It's hard to decipher what he means. He never actually walks you thru his full process step by step. He gives you all the pieces but you need to put them together. Once you get pot size correct, the rebuilds go better.

Aproximately 90% of the dry matter in a plant (whats left after water is removed) comes from the air. (47% carbon, 43% oxygen is what makes up 90% of the dry weight of a plant. 3% hydrogen, so again free from water) the rest is what you have to pay for. The coco is for the microbes. The perlite doesn't add any nutrition, so half your pot isn't for the plant.

So take out the coco and perlite, and half of what is left is used soil, and half is fresh rebuilt soil.

So your newly rebuilt Rev's soil is only about 25% of the pot.

Another option would be to mix your leftover soil 50/50 with commercial soil, add EWC and perlite, and grow that out.
Stick with the same pot sizes so you can compare. Then next grow you can adjust pot sizes accordingly.

No worries about the post, as you said, this is one of the areas not fully fleshed out by Rev so it’s valuable having it written down.

We’re now on the same page, and I reached the same conclusion you did. I’m gonna mix the leftover with commercial and run them out for two reasons. The first being the uncertainty of the current balance. The second being, I need more soil to be able to fill my pots to my preference, while having backup soil working so I’m not having these 2-3 month down times. This will allow me to benefit from the recycle while positioning the grow for longer term growth.

 

[Keffka]

Just your monthly reminder that police aren’t the good guys. They’re violent, lying, psychopaths who you should NEVER speak to without a lawyer present. They’re not your friends and would sooner beat your childrens ass than admit a mistake. The thin blue line is a made up lie to validate what was originally an organization created to track down runaway slaves. My kids have been taught since day one, cops aren’t your friends, and you don’t talk to police, ever.

Fuck the police

 

[Keffka]

The Apple Betty aka The Runt is insanely powerful. Powerful enough that my wife got baked, got the munchies, then realized she had already made food and forgot all about it .

A very classic sativa high. Hits you right in your forehead and lifts you up. A nice 3-4 hour high without an abrupt come down. Clear and goofy are good descriptions of the high.

I attribute this high to its extended flower time. The apple betty I grew outdoors doesn’t come close to this one grown indoors. However, indoors had around 45 days extra flower time in much more favorable conditions.

The smell, taste, and smoothness of the smoke are also much more pleasant than outdoors. I attribute this to much more favorable conditions as well. There was a clear difference in the amount of foliage produced outdoors versus indoors. This very likely impacts the overall profile of the buds.

I will report back a much more detailed description once it’s cure has completed

 

[StoneOtter]

So I get what you’re saying about maintaining the balance but my thought process is, if the plants only used half of what was available, and I go throwing more minerals on top of that, isn’t that going to send it off balance eventually?

For example, @StoneOtter has been running Revs mixes for a while. He had a soil test done and found his P was way high and he needed to back off amending it. This tells me that continuing with the same recipe will eventually throw your balance off since certain elements will continue to build up over time.

Now that I type that out I think I see the problem. There’s no way for me to know what does or doesn’t need to be added without a soil test or without running plants through it, so in your mind it’s better to stick to the script and adjust from there as you see your plants reflect it.

Hehe, then have fun interpreting that! Mine gave me hints of what to do if I were gardening acerage to bring it to balance! Transpose that to 40 gallon mixes! Add to that they wouldn't coach me if I said I was growing cannabis. Had to say tomatoes. Was the crop to get close.

 

[Keffka]

Hehe, then have fun interpreting that! Mine gave me hints of what to do if I were gardening acerage to bring it to balance! Transpose that to 40 gallon mixes! Add to that they wouldn't coach me if I said I was growing cannabis. Had to say tomatoes. Was the crop to get close.

Interesting. I wonder if the sponsor @Rimrock Analytical would give you the same issues with testing and suggestions. Hopefully they’ll take a look at this and reply to us. I never thought about soil laboratories being so sketchy with their results and suggestions. Seems to me there is a home grower market available for labs to serve.

 

[Absorber]

Interesting. I wonder if the sponsor @Rimrock Analytical would give you the same issues with testing and suggestions. Hopefully they’ll take a look at this and reply to us. I never thought about soil laboratories being so sketchy with their results and suggestions.

This is why I like hydro