They were dissed, now they're pissed! Revenge of the Culls!

[Setting Sun]

Re: they were dissed, now they're pissed!........ Revenge of the Culls!

Harvest and final update:

Pics taken about 2-3 days before harvest.

Wet weights.

Dry weights.



The buds are denser and more solid than the buds from the hosted grow, and seemed drier when dry weights were recorded than the hosted grow.

That's pretty much it except for maybe a journal wrap-up tomorrow.

 

[ledtester]

Re: they were dissed, now they're pissed!........ Revenge of the Culls!

missed it by that much..LOL

 

[1234a5678b]

Re: they were dissed, now they're pissed!........ Revenge of the Culls!

Great follow up to the competition.
What are the specs on your T-5?
Thanks again for all the hard work.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: they were dissed, now they're pissed!........ Revenge of the Culls!

missed it by that much..LOL

thanks bro

that was pretty close!

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: they were dissed, now they're pissed!........ Revenge of the Culls!

Great follow up to the competition.
What are the specs on your T-5?
Thanks again for all the hard work.

It's a fixture that uses a type of T-5 tube used most commonly for aquarium hoods, but it's very good for growing because the watt/lumen ratio is high.

The tubes and fixture go by several names:

power compact T-5

PL-L

biax

dulux

2G11


Each tube is essentially a U-shaped double tube. The fixture is 24", and will run two 55w or 65w tubes. With two 55w tubes, it cranks out 10,000 lumen.

You can find good deals on the tubes if you shop around.

It doesn't like digital timers, same as some other CFL's. I kept blowing tubes prematurely before I figured that out.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: they were dissed, now they're pissed!........ Revenge of the Culls!

SS one thing you have to watch out for. The underside of the leaves are very susceptible to burning from certain light spectrum. Some HPS bulbs put out some light in the 350 to 380 range which is harmless and useless when coming from above but will burn if coming from below. I would guess that the light in the upper UV range coming from the side is what caused the problem for you. Plants can handle a bunch of UV when coming from up above, as in nature, but not from below, at least cannabis can't. That is why you should never put reflective material under the plants or even a light colored surface. I've seen some growers go as far as painting the floor flat black. You don't have to worry about it with LEDs (unless the manuf. has added some UV bulbs to the mix) or the t-5's and CFL's which are UV free.

btr

Thanks for the info BTR.

That one pic I posted with the HPS and the plants is where I had it the last couple of days to see if I could get it to work with the bulb as far away as possible. So I raised the bulb up as high as I could above the canopy, but they were still wilting from it, although that may have been from prior damage, so what you're saying may still have been the issue.

I'm storing that info away for future reference, because vertical bare bulbs are very worth exploring.

 

[wizewizo]

Re: they were dissed, now they're pissed!........ Revenge of the Culls!

Those snugglets look super dense indeed. How many watts does each of those LED panels draw? Just tryin to get a comparison of gpw between the hgl light and this lil'sweet side grow. btw you did an awesome job here as well man. 89g off the two culls is damn sweet in my eyes. Outstanding!

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: they were dissed, now they're pissed!........ Revenge of the Culls!

Hi wizewizo!

They're advertised as 50w panels, but I haven't checked them with my meter to see the actual draw.

I'm going to be checking the actual power consumption for several pieces of gear soon, and I'll check these panels too, but the claim is 50w.

thank you bro

 

[The Butcher]

Re: they were dissed, now they're pissed!........ Revenge of the Culls!

Its nice to know your checking the true output of these lights. +rep

 

[Doc Bud]

Re: they were dissed, now they're pissed!........ Revenge of the Culls!

So, did I see that right? The culls yielded more than the LED tent?

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: they were dissed, now they're pissed!........ Revenge of the Culls!

The culls yielded 89g.

The HSS tent was 48g.

The HGL tent was 117g.

 

[Doc Bud]

Re: they were dissed, now they're pissed!........ Revenge of the Culls!

The culls yielded 89g.

The HSS tent was 48g.

The HGL tent was 117g.

Oh my.
2 Culls beat out 4 HSS and 3 HGL?

What's the wattage on that T5? Did you do a Gram/watt ratio on the culls?

I understand that you did LST, FIM and other things.....but still, that's pretty dramatic.

What are your thoughts on this, especially regarding the cost of the LED's?

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: they were dissed, now they're pissed!........ Revenge of the Culls!

Oh my.
2 Culls beat out 4 HSS and 3 HGL?

What's the wattage on that T5? Did you do a Gram/watt ratio on the culls?

The T-5 is 110w, but I added 100w of LED for the second half of bloom, so that would have to be factored in.

I understand that you did LST, FIM and other things.....but still, that's pretty dramatic.

It is quite a difference, but I do think that a very significant part of that difference was the LST/FIM.

What are your thoughts on this, especially regarding the cost of the LED's?

Limiting my thoughts to my experience with the HGL 126w light and the HSS 180w light, I'd say that for them to do well, you have to optimize things by either limiting the number of plants so they are directly under the light and/or use a technique like LST, SCROG, etc., to compensate for the lack of penetration.

I can't really make a comment on LED's in general, because I've only used these two lights, and then only for one grow. The higher-powered LED panels at 300-600w seem promising from what I've seen thus far.

All that aside, if I needed a low-heat solution for growing AT THIS POINT IN TIME, I'd go with T-5's or a Roseman-style setup with spiral CFL's in worklights.

Four worklights and four 42w spiral CFL's would approximate the same wattage as both of those lights and cost less than $100.

The T-5 I used for this grow cost $79.

I hope to be able to have a more comprehensive answer for your question after the next comparison, because the higher-powered LED panels may perform significantly better.

 

[Tyrone Hamilton]

Re: they were dissed, now they're pissed!........ Revenge of the Culls!

Nice work Sun! Fascinating side grow... always a pleasure to tune in.

 

[MountainHigh]

Re: they were dissed, now they're pissed!........ Revenge of the Culls!

Interesting info there. Glad you got some nice buds out of the deal bro!

Maybe a cool tube kinda thing around the HPS, the glass might cause enough refraction to diffuse the reflections a bit more.

I would switch to pandafilm for a single point light source like an HPS. The white acts as a reflector but really isn't technically, not as capable of hot spots because it is absorbing and re-emitting photon's (semi random radiation) not reflecting them (more focused). And it supposedly like 95% efficient. Nice and easy to clean too.

I really like it Pandafilm though...local nursery sells it for $1 a foot, and I will admit to frustration issues...I have no depth perception so...mylar and me...not a good mix. 6 mil plastic is TOUGH like I need it....

If they still burn in there then it is just too much light pressure, but I don't think that is possible with 150w and reflected light...

At 8" a 150w has a foot-candle pressure of ~11500, ~80000 foot-candles is where you start to hit bleaching....at least according to a handy chart I downloaded from here.....

Just the wild ramblings of a MountainHigh

 

[ledtester]

Re: they were dissed, now they're pissed!........ Revenge of the Culls!

The higher-powered LED panels at 300-600w seem promising from what I've seen thus far.

SS Irish has four plants under a 600w panel, if he had even 8, it might look promising since 10 plants under a 600w HID is not a problem. As it is, Irish has to pull around 5 oz from each plant for it to be worth while to an experienced grower like himself...he has to pull 3oz each for an ave. grower......and that's at ZERO effeciency savings! jmho

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: they were dissed, now they're pissed!........ Revenge of the Culls!

Yep, IMO, the wattage sweet-spot for LED's currently as far as performance/cost might be around 300w.

For personal grows, the only reason I might consider a 600w would be heat issues, since as you say, a 600w HID uses the same energy, has great coverage and penetration, and costs way less.

and, if it was just a heat issue, I could solve it for lots less money with T5's/CFL's, or maybe just settle for a lower-wattage HID setup if possible.

Now that I upgraded the ventilation on my little cab, I'm going to go see if I can run the 150w HPS in there horizontally with hood, because that would do *real* well in there .

Fortunately, my med needs are relatively low, so I'm not under pressure to produce and I've been able to focus on growing with relatively low-wattage lights. That's good from an energy standpoint, but it's also challenging to grow with plus/minus 200w. It's a lot of fun and it pushes my game.



I can't wait to see whether that 150 is gonna work or not .

 

[Slowpuffer]

Re: they were dissed, now they're pissed!........ Revenge of the Culls!

The T-5 is 110w, but I added 100w of LED for the second half of bloom, so that would have to be factored in.



It is quite a difference, but I do think that a very significant part of that difference was the LST/FIM.



Limiting my thoughts to my experience with the HGL 126w light and the HSS 180w light, I'd say that for them to do well, you have to optimize things by either limiting the number of plants so they are directly under the light and/or use a technique like LST, SCROG, etc., to compensate for the lack of penetration.

I can't really make a comment on LED's in general, because I've only used these two lights, and then only for one grow. The higher-powered LED panels at 300-600w seem promising from what I've seen thus far.

All that aside, if I needed a low-heat solution for growing AT THIS POINT IN TIME, I'd go with T-5's or a Roseman-style setup with spiral CFL's in worklights.

Four worklights and four 42w spiral CFL's would approximate the same wattage as both of those lights and cost less than $100.

The T-5 I used for this grow cost $79.

I hope to be able to have a more comprehensive answer for your question after the next comparison, because the higher-powered LED panels may perform significantly better.

t
THANKS FOR DOING THE SIDE SHOW !! I'D HAVE BEEN WONDERING FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE, . HA !! GOOD SHOW BUDDY !!

 

[WheeloFortune]

Re: they were dissed, now they're pissed!........ Revenge of the Culls!

little late to the party.
nice recap. . . exactly what i was hoping to see.

hmmm. . . 90 grams from 1/2 the plants. . . . seems like cfl is the better bang for the buck for sure.

i like the led side lighting. . . lol, want to say a joke about it being the right place to use it, but it probably wouldn't be funny anyway.

 

[Setting Sun]

Re: they were dissed, now they're pissed!........ Revenge of the Culls!

Interesting info there. Glad you got some nice buds out of the deal bro!

thanks bro

Total yield from all 10 plants was 9 oz, so from a personal standpoint, I'm good for a while.

Maybe a cool tube kinda thing around the HPS, the glass might cause enough refraction to diffuse the reflections a bit more.

The magic of a bare bulb is direct unimpeded light, so it's better to leave it bare if possible. I think with a vertical screen on each side I might be able to tie the plants back so that there's enough clearance, so that's worth pursuing since it would be real easy to set up.

The problem could also have been what BTR mentioned about the underside of the leaves being sensitive to certain colors, so I'll keep that in mind also if I try it again.

I would switch to pandafilm for a single point light source like an HPS. The white acts as a reflector but really isn't technically, not as capable of hot spots because it is absorbing and re-emitting photon's (semi random radiation) not reflecting them (more focused). And it supposedly like 95% efficient. Nice and easy to clean too.

The cab walls aren't white, they're lined with one of those reflective windshield shades for cars. You can find those at dollar stores sometimes and they work great. I don't like mylar too much either cause it's wrinkly and disorienting when it's just hung up. I've seen it glued down nice and flat, and that I could live with.

If they still burn in there then it is just too much light pressure, but I don't think that is possible with 150w and reflected light...

Perhaps, but it's quite possible with direct light.

At 8" a 150w has a foot-candle pressure of ~11500, ~80000 foot-candles is where you start to hit bleaching....at least according to a handy chart I downloaded from here.....

This is a chart that Propa Gator sent me a while back for vertical bare bulbs and distances. According to this chart, I need about 9-10" if I'm not running CO2 or A/C, and my cab is 25" wide. With the bulb hung in the center, that leaves maybe 3" of room on each side for the plants. Might work with vertical screens and lots of tying, but that's not much room.

www.VerticalHerbs.com, Tools and information you need for better growing.


Thanks MH