They were dissed, now they're pissed! Revenge of the Culls!

[Setting Sun]

Check out Sunlight Supply's 'SUPER SUN'. It should fit. They make a 4" flange kit that should adequately evacuate the heat from a 250 in that area, maybe even a 400 if you have enough air flow.

PS: Nice Bud!

I checked it out and it would fit as long as there's room for the ducting. Having the carbon filter inside the cab makes things very tight up top.

Might work though, thanks bro!

 

[Setting Sun]

I have a smoke report from some buds remarkably similar to this over on my Lucky journal.

fantastic bro. looks absolutely delish.

thanks bro!

Your HS buds got my vote in the BOTM contest

Hahaha, I love the name of this Journal. Thank you Setting Sun. Really nice pics too.

Bill, and bro!

 

[Keith Lake]

A few more observations

• Total growing time was 84 days
• Time weighted average wattages are included in the table below
• The culls each received roughly double the wattage per plant as the LED configuration
• The total grams per watt was a 0.552
• A bit more moisture loss than the LEDs but still a shade less than the rule of thumb 75%
• The culled HSS plant had the same weight as all 4 HSS LED combined
• The culled HGL plant had 70% the weight of the average HGL LED grown plants, which is essentially the same result when normalized for wattage (within standard deviation).
• Both culls had greater weights than any plants in the LED grow, however the culls each had roughly twice the light per plant

 

[Doc Bud]

A few more observations

• Total growing time was 84 days
• Time weighted average wattages are included in the table below
• The culls each received roughly double the wattage per plant as the LED configuration
• The total grams per watt was a 0.552
• A bit more moisture loss than the LEDs but still a shade less than the rule of thumb 75%
• The culled HSS plant had the same weight as all 4 HSS LED combined
• The culled HGL plant had 70% the weight of the average HGL LED grown plants, which is essentially the same result when normalized for wattage (within standard deviation).
• Both culls had greater weights than any plants in the LED grow, however the culls each had roughly twice the light per plant

The moral of the story:

If you have heat issues and want to grow some nice plants, get a T5. Supplement it with LED's if you have them laying around, otherwise, get some CFL's at home depot.

 

[Keith Lake]

I think that there were three issues with LEDs that were the basis of the "LED wars"

1) LEDs can't flower
2) LEDs can't produce reasonable g/w
3) LEDs aren't cost effective

My opinion is false, false, true

However for the grower that needs a few plants to meet his personal needs, the one time fixed cost of 400ish bucks is noise in the big picture.

For the scale grower looking to lower his massive heat footprint and electricity bill, these relatively low wattage LEDs are not the way to go

For me it remains to be seen whether the medium/high watt LEDs are worth it.

 

[1234a5678b]

I think that there were three issues with LEDs that were the basis of the "LED wars"

1) LEDs can't flower
2) LEDs can't produce reasonable g/w
3) LEDs aren't cost effective

My opinion is false, false, true

However for the grower that needs a few plants to meet his personal needs, the one time fixed cost of 400ish bucks is noise in the big picture.

Thats my exact situation. I have HIDs, but they produce more meds than I require. I'm not interested in growing for profit, and all of the other problems and legal concerns that come with it.
For my personal situation (an 1/8 to a 1/4 a week from the dispensaries) it will make a nice hobby, and probably pay for itself in 3-4 grows.
Thanks again SS, Soniq and everyone else who helped on this. I can't wait to put some of the things I have learned from this into play.

 

[wizewizo]

I think that there were three issues with LEDs that were the basis of the "LED wars"

1) LEDs can't flower
2) LEDs can't produce reasonable g/w
3) LEDs aren't cost effective

My opinion is false, false, true

However for the grower that needs a few plants to meet his personal needs, the one time fixed cost of 400ish bucks is noise in the big picture.

For the scale grower looking to lower his massive heat footprint and electricity bill, these relatively low wattage LEDs are not the way to go

For me it remains to be seen whether the medium/high watt LEDs are worth it.

Exactly, couldnt have said it any better myself...

If I myself was starting up for the first time growing and doing just a personal grow in a tight confined lil'area where stealthiness, heat, and noise were an issue I would certainly opt for some LED's.

 

[Setting Sun]

Thanks again for running the numbers and reporting this additional data brother Soniq!

 

[Setting Sun]

I think that there were three issues with LEDs that were the basis of the "LED wars"

1) LEDs can't flower
2) LEDs can't produce reasonable g/w
3) LEDs aren't cost effective

My opinion is false, false, true

However for the grower that needs a few plants to meet his personal needs, the one time fixed cost of 400ish bucks is noise in the big picture.

For the scale grower looking to lower his massive heat footprint and electricity bill, these relatively low wattage LEDs are not the way to go

For me it remains to be seen whether the medium/high watt LEDs are worth it.

Thats my exact situation. I have HIDs, but they produce more meds than I require. I'm not interested in growing for profit, and all of the other problems and legal concerns that come with it.
For my personal situation (an 1/8 to a 1/4 a week from the dispensaries) it will make a nice hobby, and probably pay for itself in 3-4 grows.
Thanks again SS, Soniq and everyone else who helped on this. I can't wait to put some of the things I have learned from this into play.

Exactly, couldnt have said it any better myself...

If I myself was starting up for the first time growing and doing just a personal grow in a tight confined lil'area where stealthiness, heat, and noise were an issue I would certainly opt for some LED's.

But if you plug T5's into the above:

1) T5's can't flower.
2) T5's can't produce reasonable g/w.
3) T5's aren't cost effective.

My opinion would be:

False
False
False

Not saying that I would rule out LED's if those were my circumstances, but if cost was an important consideration, the choice would be obvious.

I agree, however, that both technologies can do the job for a small personal grow.

Now, if costs were roughly equal, I'd have a more difficult choice.

 

[WheeloFortune]

I think that there were three issues with LEDs that were the basis of the "LED wars"

1) LEDs can't flower
2) LEDs can't produce reasonable g/w
3) LEDs aren't cost effective

My opinion is false, false, true

i agree pretty much, f,f,t, but . . . I think those are reasonable Q n A to whether or not to use them. . .

IMO, the "LED wars" were based on bogus outrageous claims by manufacturers who looked at certain stats, misinterpreted the reality of the effects of those stats and said they were 10 times better than they actually were. . . Then donkeys who fell in love with the idea of them, but had little working knowledge, defended the claims fiercely.

people who say they can't flower were wrong, but no more wrong than the people who claim 90w LED=400w HPS.

just like in politics, when many people get disgusted with an extreme claim they think is wrong, they tend to gravitate to the other extreme. not try to reasonably asses the situation from the middle.

 

[Doc Bud]

i agree pretty much, f,f,t, but . . .

IMO, the "LED wars" were based on bogus outrageous claims by manufacturers who looked at certain stats, misinterpreted the reality of the effects of those stats and said they were 10 times better than they actually were. . . Then donkeys who fell in love with the idea of them, but had little working knowledge, defended the claims fiercely.

people who say they can't flower were wrong, but no more wrong than the people who claim 90w LED=400w HPS.

just like in politics, when many people get disgusted with an extreme claim they think is wrong, they tend to gravitate to the other extreme. not try to reasonably asses the situation from the middle.

The claims are exactly the source of the problem.
I don't know if anyone noticed, but both manufacturers changed their claims about HID equivalents towards the end of SS's grow.

I can't help thinking that they did that because of the obvious results they were seeing. Neither light is anywhere near a 400watt, let alone a 600.

Those kind of expectations lead to very disillusioned people, who can't help but spread the word.....and thus LED's get trashed.

If they were advertised accurately, people wouldn't be so disappointed.

Think about CFL's or T5's. To the best of my knowledge, T5 makers don't claim their lights are equal to a 600 watt HPS. The CFL's you get at home depot certainly don't say anything like that: "Light your whole outdoor basketball court with 100 watts!" Yeah, right.

So, LED's flower
They also produce reasonable grams per watt
But they aren't cost effective.

 

[Setting Sun]

I need to say something else in regards to LED's and emerging technologies.

Personally, I'm not much of an early adopter when it comes to most things, the only exception being some software programs, because I know patches and fixes will be released and the product will be improved and remain viable for some time.

When it comes to emerging things like LED lights, however, I'd rather sit back and let other folks spend their money and fund the R&D before I pull the trigger.

Personally, I think that's a wise thing for me to do, but if everybody was like me, we'd still be growing with T12 shop-lights.

The last thing I want to do with my comments about LED's is to quench the pioneering spirit that helps drive this technology forward.

I very much admire the early adopters who are willing to take risks that I'm not willing to take. I'm not talking about those who think they got suckered and fooled into buying something that didn't meet their expectations, but rather those who bought LED lights fully knowing that the tech is still young and that there's still some bugs to work out.

Through the course of these two journals , I've been in communication with several growers who fit into that category, both publicly and also in PM. You know who you are.

These are the pioneers whose hope, adventurous spirit, and curiosity allow them to take risks that we *all* benefit from, and the last thing I would do is denigrate their judgment and choices.

You guys, and again you know who you are, have my utmost respect and admiration.

 

[Keith Lake]

I do agree the LED wars were in large part fueled by claims that were excessive.

I think we can all agree that it's a great thing that the industry trend has been to decrease or remove all claims. Hope I get these right:

• GrowHydroLED makes no claim other than personal belief of 1 to 1 with HPS
• HGL changed from 400 watt equivalent to 250 watt equivalent
• HSS changed from 600 to 400 to not listing a claim now

LED industry claims = now approaching realistic levels

 

[dogsnova]

I do agree the LED wars were in large part fueled by claims that were excessive.

I think we can all agree that it's a great thing that the industry trend has been to decrease or remove all claims. Hope I get these right:

• GrowHydroLED makes no claim other than personal belief of 1 to 1 with HPS
• HGL changed from 400 watt equivalent to 250 watt equivalent
• HSS changed from 600 to 400 to not listing a claim now

LED industry claims = now approaching realistic levels

Trust me... Without LED forums like the ones found here at 420mag, two of the three manufactures mentioned above (that care nothing about the Med user) would still be making those outlandish claims...

Thank god for places like 420mag. IMO without places like this. Those unrealistic claims made by the manufactures would still be on their web site..

Great job to 420mag and all the LED growers that are spreading the real words..

 

[Wingman420]

The last thing I want to do with my comments about LED's is to quench the pioneering spirit that helps drive this technology forward.

I very much admire the early adopters who are willing to take risks that I'm not willing to take. I'm not talking about those who think they got suckered and fooled into buying something that didn't meet their expectations, but rather those who bought LED lights fully knowing that the tech is still young and that there's still some bugs to work out.

Through the course of these two journals , I've been in communication with several growers who fit into that category, both publicly and also in PM. You know who you are.

These are the pioneers whose hope, adventurous spirit, and curiosity allow them to take risks that we *all* benefit from, and the last thing I would do is denigrate their judgment and choices.

You guys, and again you know who you are, have my utmost respect and admiration.

Very well said I have been reading quite a bit of posts and journals lately and wanted to chime in with a compliment for you Setting Sun and the members in your journal. What you are saying is perfect and you are a gentlemen, it is this type of mutual respect we profit from and have built our reputations on. It was a joy to read through this journal, with the beautiful buds you produce and the great company you keep it is a wonder this journal does not have 20,000 people posting all day and night long.

 

[moslowjj]

Hey sun, Hope all is well with you....Just got back online and will be posting my intentions in the forum... Lotta catchin up to do...lol

 

[Tyrone Hamilton]

These are the pioneers whose hope, adventurous spirit, and curiosity allow them to take risks that we *all* benefit from, and the last thing I would do is denigrate their judgment and choices.

Very well said Sun!

I have to say, it's no wonder why you have earned widespread trust...

...such a well documented journal, thriving with debate from all sides, and conducted with wisdom and wit.

You are the 420 Consumer Reports!

 

[Setting Sun]

I do agree the LED wars were in large part fueled by claims that were excessive.

I think we can all agree that it's a great thing that the industry trend has been to decrease or remove all claims. Hope I get these right:

• GrowHydroLED makes no claim other than personal belief of 1 to 1 with HPS
• HGL changed from 400 watt equivalent to 250 watt equivalent
• HSS changed from 600 to 400 to not listing a claim now

LED industry claims = now approaching realistic levels

The Internet, combined with credible data, can be very powerful when it comes to disseminating information and sorting truth from BS.

If the 420Mag hosted journal had something to do with the vendors adjusting their claims, we can all feel pretty good about that.

 

[Setting Sun]

Hey sun, Hope all is well with you....Just got back online and will be posting my intentions in the forum... Lotta catchin up to do...lol

moslow!!!

Glad you're back online and doing OK brother!!!

I just subscribed to your new journal

 

[Setting Sun]

Very well said I have been reading quite a bit of posts and journals lately and wanted to chime in with a compliment for you Setting Sun and the members in your journal. What you are saying is perfect and you are a gentlemen, it is this type of mutual respect we profit from and have built our reputations on. It was a joy to read through this journal, with the beautiful buds you produce and the great company you keep it is a wonder this journal does not have 20,000 people posting all day and night long.

thank you!