Xlr8's "Flo N Gro" Hydro Multiple Strains 2011

[Xlr8]

ok so today is a good day. I just tested the ppm of my tap and it was only 490. Did I mention we have a water softener? No clue how that works. But it's there in the garage with the rocks in it.

You should see my dishes after the dishwasher. They come out with stains of calcium. We eat rocks for dinner and drink stones like kool-aid in Vegas baby. Oh, and our yards as a general rule, are rock gardens.

two questions:

Whats a RODI? I've seen it numerous times above and don't know the acronym.

What effect does a water softener have on our grow water when using Reverse Osmosis at the faucet? **Thinking towards the future and adding an RO like you guys talk about instead of refilling 4-6 5 gal jugs at the store every week.

I don't think I can answer this as well as Mr. Smith already did, so I'll leave it at that - except to say, I think water softeners usually only soften hot water, don't they? If you use cold water with an RO system I'm not sure the softener is involved. I might be wrong (I am high), but I think that's right.

Hot water carries more heavy metals/sediment so you'd ruin your RO filters faster by using it, but it WOULD allow the water to be filtered faster. The colder the temperature, the harder it is to push it through the filtering membranes, or so the manufacturer told me over the phone, lol. (I've always used mine with cold water...)

 

[Xlr8]

Hey there XLR8!! I really like your RO set up!! Great idea and inexpensive!!! With my ebb and gro I woul mix tap and RO 50/50. Our tap water is at around 350 ppm. Great set up. Plants are looking fantastic!!!

Thanks CF!

I really do like that idea of mixing tap with RO. I'm thinking of trying that after this grow. Don't want to mess around to much at this stage in the current grow, but I definitely want to try it. I'm still trying to learn these nutes, Ebb growing, and filling my tent. Seemed like everything I did this grow was new, different, or close to it. I'd gotten into a comfort level with my old set-up, and while my current set-up is much better, I've been constantly learning/tweaking on the fly... Can't wait til the next round now that I've got a better handle on the new nutes, environment, etc.

 

[Xlr8]

Nice system you got going there XLR8 love the simplicity and convience of the lid switch

Seems like RO setups are the way forward for people that drink handfulls of dissolved salts everyday! Yuk ... My tap pumps out water that reads 600 - 700ppm tastes like S*#%!

Grew with it once and my ladies did NOT like it one bit i tried all sort of nutes hydro guy said oh this hard water stuff will work nice ... Ummm no way to much calcium tried another he recommended and no gussing what happened.

I use bottled water now same nutes and never get the problems i used to i will get a RO system hooked up soon anoth there just VERY expensive here but well worth it!

Hi Godspeed -

Yikes! That's some high PPM water. I'd be using bottled water, too, for everything I think. You'll like the RO system when you get it - much better than buying bottles of water if you can do it, but I know what you mean about expensive - money's tight in my household at the moment (now that's an understatement...)

Hope all is well in your part of the world!

 

[Xlr8]

First question answer
RODI stands for Reverse Osmosis DeIonized water. (Explains RODI)Water quality information - Water Deionization Process Explained | APEC Water

Second question answer
Water is filtered so any softener will be removed. You might have to add a sediment filter before the ro unit to help prolong its life. Your filters and membranes will have a shorter lifespan because your water is so bad. I am sorry you have such bad water bro.

XLR8.
I use 150 plus gallons a week. Water is not dirt cheap when I see a bill for over 300 bucks. I did use the calmag for a while but could see no difference when used with it and when used without. Silica does raise ph but can drop back down and/or not raise ph up enough. Silica does seem to work, seen it during a cloning accident but you can't rely on it. Nutes are made to be ph buffered close to 6.0 plus or minus 0.9 but when the plant shits in the water or something rots ph can change quite quickly and it can go up,up,up or crash down hard(below 4.0ph). With the ebb I rarely have ph issues but with dwc and aero it can be a rollercoaster ride. Even with a chiller and rodi 7ppm water. Recirculation systems will always need to be monitored, the roots suck(drink) and expel(piss). So your always going to have to have the up and down solutions handy. I bought the chiller and the rodi because I thought they were my missing links. I got my environment under control. Lighting, temp, humidity, air exchange and odor control is well within the green and the only things left were water quality and water temp. After I fixed those 2 items I should be awesome. After a few grows I found that that these things were not as much of a problem as I thought. So I am still learning to grow a better plant. I want the perfect grow and for some reason I just can't seem to get there. Its why I keep coming back to the forums. I am in a rut and I am doing my best to get out of it. After 8 plus years growing I have only had one 1 gram per watt grow and sometimes I feel like I cheated cause I had to go vertcal to do it. Its fustrating and its not like I am idle, I had 11 plus harvests last year with homemade setups and expensive setups and I try new products all the time. I keep thinking the next grow is going to be the great one. I can only seem to get close. Its fustrating, maybe I raised the bar too high. I wish I was a better grower. I need a smoke break.

Plus rep on the RODI answers Mr. Smith. If I had to make that much water, I'd probably find a way to live with tap, too. That sounds crazy expensive.

I don't know that I'd use Silica strictly for PH up purposes, but it helps bring things in line. I think Munki actually tried subbing it as a way to PH up, but I don't think he stuck with it long (at least as a primary means to PH up). I just like that it works pretty harmoniously with the BPN 3 part nutes which often mix up (without Silica) a bit acidic (not in a bad way, just needs to be PH'd up more than I'm used to at times).

I've noticed Ebb buckets are much easier with PH adjustments so far vs. DWC. Plus, my res. is outside of the growspace now, so I can adjust PH without going into the tent - pretty handy.

You're way to hard on yourself. There are some great growers here, but you are one of a handful that really inspire me to grow nicer plants. It's funny you said what you did about wanting to be a better grower, because I feel the same way and you're one of a few people setting that bar for me (whether you knew that or not!). I'm not really interested in the gram per watt club yet, but I can see that being a goal someday. I just want to grow perfect plants (at least strive for it). I have a long ways to go!

That vertical set-up was insane. It sounded like a beast to deal with, but it sure produced. I don't know how you can call anything that cool, with that much DIY, cheating. I have huge respect for you as a grower, for what it's worth.

Anyway, thanks again for the education on RODI - I learned a lot from your post and link.

Its one step further for better water quality but now that I own it I kinda wish I bought a tall boy sediment declorinator filter set up or a regular ro machine. The tall boy wastes no water and a ro waste is 2 to 1. A rodi is 3 to 1 but my math might be wrong lol. Might depend on the manufacturer. I don't think rodi is needed to grow a plant but if its a reef tank then its what you almost need. I think your just better off with a normal ro machine with a added sediment filter. I bought the big rodi, makes 150gal a day at 60psi. If I knew it was auto shutoff when I bought it I would have bought a smaller unit but such is life.

I always wondered about those Tall Boy units. See them, but never looked into them. I'll have to take a closer look at one - sounds interesting.

 

[Xlr8]

Grow Update - Pics from November 2nd - Day 41 Bloom:

Well, I'm a couple of days behind with these pictures, but I thought I'd post a couple of pics after defoliating a bit (40 days). I removed a fair amount - most of the larger fan leaves, except for a few on the edges not blocking anything. For me, it was a slaughter compared to what I'm used to - again, a bit out of my comfort zone, but I'm trying new things, which is good. Nearly filled a 5 gallon bucket with leaves! Definitely more light getting to some of the lower stuff now, though.

The Chocolope in the DWC bucket is a scraggly mess, and I haven't spent much time with her. She's still producing buds and I'll keep her around, but pretty scrawny/scraggly. I should have left her out of this grow, but I'm probably going to see it through now. Who knows, maybe there'll be a few days worth of decent smoke from her in the end at least... I'll try to get a picture of her again soon - I keep forgetting her with the pics (there isn't much to see). She's healthy at the moment, but so scraggly and underdeveloped looking. Just was never right from the start, and I've been focusing my energy on the main grow too much I guess. She seems to be on a leisurely schedule, so maybe she'll see a bud growth spurt yet at some point. You CAN see her in the group photos - the scraggly one directly under the recirculating fan on the left side.


Plucked!

Group Shot

Magic Bud

Lucy tops

Skywalker

Lavender

Lavender

Group Shot

 

[Xlr8]

I could stare at the Lavender buds all day. What a great plant! 2 of her 4 tops are just plump as heck, and her secondary buds are almost as big as the tops on some plants I've grown. What a lovely beast woman she is!

Thinking of letting some cold outside air in, to see if I can trigger purps at all in her or others... Not sure if there is a "best" time in the grow to do this. I welcome thoughts on the idea... I'm in 5-6th week of flower.

Any reason I shouldn't or better time to do it? Never tried dropping the temp like that before.

 

[NorCaliwood]

I just came bye to catch up on your trip here Dude. I see you using a R/O system. When I moved here, I didn't know what the water ppm or ph was. Most my life I used rainwater or straight tap if that was it. I never really did alot of playing in hydro, so a ppm pen wasn't even a priorities on my mind. But when I got here, I was looking thru one of these free cycle sites and bumped into this;

Well I used it and even found a site that you can get the filters for 15$ SO I got one. Come to find out out water here is great off tap. 18 pmm and a ph 6.8. I see Blue planet said he has had water at 10 from a well thats like wow. But for tap city water Portland area has been blessed with bottled water on tap. I think that my R/O got it down to 10. Whats yours coming out like? Mine was same 1 enter line with 2 exits. It did alot of water two. Like a barrel a nite or close if I remember rite.
That Lavender looks sweet. She's going to start putting some Major crystals now. Magic looks good also. Your height looks great from here on your group shot, but Bush Masters is a nice thing to do with them unmanageable. I hear you can use as a foliar, but I always used as a drench. Don't need alot either. I remember frying a plant once with some I tryed double dosing.
Hey Looks Goood Keepem Green

 

[Xlr8]

I just came bye to catch up on your trip here Dude. I see you using a R/O system. When I moved here, I didn't know what the water ppm or ph was. Most my life I used rainwater or straight tap if that was it. I never really did alot of playing in hydro, so a ppm pen wasn't even a priorities on my mind. But when I got here, I was looking thru one of these free cycle sites and bumped into this;

Well I used it and even found a site that you can get the filters for 15$ SO I got one. Come to find out out water here is great off tap. 18 pmm and a ph 6.8. I see Blue planet said he has had water at 10 from a well thats like wow. But for tap city water Portland area has been blessed with bottled water on tap. I think that my R/O got it down to 10. Whats yours coming out like? Mine was same 1 enter line with 2 exits. It did alot of water two. Like a barrel a nite or close if I remember rite.
That Lavender looks sweet. She's going to start putting some Major crystals now. Magic looks good also. Your height looks great from here on your group shot, but Bush Masters is a nice thing to do with them unmanageable. I hear you can use as a foliar, but I always used as a drench. Don't need alot either. I remember frying a plant once with some I tryed double dosing.
Hey Looks Goood Keepem Green

Couldn't see the pic for some reason, but I take it you got a nice deal on a RO unit? My TDS pen will either give me a 0ppm result, or occasionally 10ppm. Virtually 0, So, it's nice and clean!

Oh, and for the props. The Lavender is pretty impressive in person. Hope she's as good in the vaporizer.

Definitely gonna try Bushmasters when I grow some Sativas.

 

[Closet Farmer]

I could stare at the Lavender buds all day. What a great plant! 2 of her 4 tops are just plump as heck, and her secondary buds are almost as big as the tops on some plants I've grown. What a lovely beast woman she is!

Thinking of letting some cold outside air in, to see if I can trigger purps at all in her or others... Not sure if there is a "best" time in the grow to do this. I welcome thoughts on the idea... I'm in 5-6th week of flower.

Any reason I shouldn't or better time to do it? Never tried dropping the temp like that before.

Why not let some cold air in. I would give it a try! My last grow I did I cranked my room ac unit down a few notches in temp. during the last few weeks before harvest. I think it really helped the quality! I would be curious to hear what others would say but I would definately take advantage of Mother Nature!!

 

[Aaron Quix]

Man X I know you see your plants every day, so you cant see what I see, after a week of little activity here....Bad ass Brother!! I haven't been by in about a week, and I'm looking at some SERIOUS buds there buddy! What a difference a week makes! I've been studying a bit lately for my plumbing lisence, so forgive my absence. Just wanted to drop in and sya hi and hope all is well in your world, it certainly looks as though its going well in the tent! Grow on brother man!

 

[420GodsTrichome]

looking great!!!
ps... now is perfect time to introduce cold air. I start 3rd to 4th week with ALL indoor plants, purp or not. kicks up resin production if you gradually do it in most all strains. also, auto's love it. you can grow most ruderalis(autos) in 40's through whole grow if u want...food for thought.
GT

 

[MissBud]

Here are is my hydro reservoir set-up. I thought I'd post as many details as I could for those who might benefit from it...

I have one in use, and a second one pre-filled with RO water for the next reservoir change (once a week). Notice the connectors for the RO system on the front just under the lid handle. This is the float valve attached to the "reservoir" (In my case new/cleaned Rubbermaid trash bins converted for the purpose).

My pumps and hoses are connected via the lid, and that one lid is always on the active reservoir. Basically, I just mix up my new nutes in the secondary reservoir (which was prefilled with RO Water), and switch the lids on the reservoirs so that the one that has the pump hanging from it goes to the one with newly mixed nutes. I then take the "old" reservoir, dump the old nutes, clean it, and fill it up again with water for the next cycle.

Here's my Rubbermaid reservoirs, the one on the left is the active one, the one on the right has fresh RO water in preparation for the next nutrient change:

View of the connection for the float valve - these connectors just require that you "push" the 1/4" line into the connector, and "pull" it out (no tools required):

Float valve from the inside of the reservoir - the water trickles in, and the float closes the valve when it is forced up by the rising water level, keeping if from flooding if you just let it go. In my opinion, a float valve is a must have with an RO system - it allows you to walk away and forget about it without fear of creating a flood. (You can tell by the color of the water this is a picture of the active nutrient reservoir)

Rubbermaid totes also make good reservoirs, as do plastic drums (get the kind with removable lids so you can clean them). I prefer Rubbermaid as they seem to be durable and flexible - less prone to crack than the harder plastic containers. Hit me up if I can provide any more info or answer any further questions, etc...

Hey X, marvellous job on this little money saver!



I have a question and resquest though

1.Is there any chance you could post a picture of your pump underneath the lid on your next reservoir change?

2.I hope this doesn't sound stupid but is your pump simply connected to the controller that was provided?This hydro stuff is quite a handful lolIf it's a bother don't worry about it I'm just very intrigued about this whole thing.


on everything my friend!

 

[jandre2k3]

Lucy tops

Group Shot

Look at those juicy lucky lucy! Almost too Dark Green and just Lip-smackin'-lookin'!

Okay yes, I'm biased. Do you blame me? I mean LOOK AT THEM!

Great group shot, too. Can really see the lower buds now. Grats on deciding to defoliate some. If we ca see the lower buds, the lower buds can see the light! mo light-mo betah!

 

[Xlr8]

Hey X, marvellous job on this little money saver!



I have a question and resquest though

1.Is there any chance you could post a picture of your pump underneath the lid on your next reservoir change?

2.I hope this doesn't sound stupid but is your pump simply connected to the controller that was provided?This hydro stuff is quite a handful lolIf it's a bother don't worry about it I'm just very intrigued about this whole thing.


on everything my friend!

Hi Missbud - First off,

The pump is connected to a fitting that has threads on top and bottom of lid. 1/2" tubing goes to fitting underneath, and a 1/2" hose goes from the top part of the fitting (above the lid) into the tent and to the control bucket. This is how the buckets get flooded. The pump takes the water/nute solution from the reservoir into the tent and floods the buckets to about the 80% level.

Also, there is a second 1/2" tubing run from the outside of the lid to the control bucket in the tent for "draining" the buckets. A pump in the control bucket pumps out the nutrient solution from the buckets back to the reservoir where the tubing connects to the lid. On the bottom of the lid that fitting has no tube connected to it as the nutrients just dump into the reservoir after the 15 minute flood event.

I don't know how well I just described all that!

I think the best thing I can do for you is post this video. Instead of using the 55 gallon drum that the full kit comes with (shown in the video), I used the rubbermaid trash bin that I bought separately. So, just imagine my Rubbermaid trash bin in place of the barrel in the video - that's what I was trying to emulate.

The connections for the reservoir are featured at about the 3:40 mark of the video:

Titan Controls - Flo-N-Gro - YouTube

Hope that helps, let me know if you still have other questions...

 

[Xlr8]

Look at those juicy lucky lucy! Almost too Dark Green and just Lip-smackin'-lookin'!

Okay yes, I'm biased. Do you blame me? I mean LOOK AT THEM!

Great group shot, too. Can really see the lower buds now. Grats on deciding to defoliate some. If we ca see the lower buds, the lower buds can see the light! mo light-mo betah!

Jandre!

Appreciate that brother - I'm excited about the Lucy big time! Yes, I think the defoliating was a good thing, and I'm hoping it pays off for me.

 

[Bassman59]

Really looking good X. Great journal too.

 

[Xlr8]

Really looking good X. Great journal too.

Thanks Bassman. Appreciate that!

 

[Xlr8]

Man X I know you see your plants every day, so you cant see what I see, after a week of little activity here....Bad ass Brother!! I haven't been by in about a week, and I'm looking at some SERIOUS buds there buddy! What a difference a week makes! I've been studying a bit lately for my plumbing lisence, so forgive my absence. Just wanted to drop in and sya hi and hope all is well in your world, it certainly looks as though its going well in the tent! Grow on brother man!

Hi Quix!

I almost missed your post somehow, sorry about that... Thanks man! I know what you mean, they don't look to different for me day to day, but I've had that happen where I see someone else's plants and it seems like there's been a lot of growth in a weeks time or so. Good luck on getting your plumbing license - just remember, shit runs downhill. I sure understand how life gets busy sometimes. I appreciate you stopping by, brotha.

 

[Xlr8]

Why not let some cold air in. I would give it a try! My last grow I did I cranked my room ac unit down a few notches in temp. during the last few weeks before harvest. I think it really helped the quality! I would be curious to hear what others would say but I would definately take advantage of Mother Nature!!

I almost missed your post too, Closet Farmer

I'm a little paranoid of going to far with it and stressing the plants, but I'm taking advantage of the colder outside temps to run everything just a tad cooler than it had been. Nice having mother nature working with me for a change.

Thanks for weighing in with your thoughts.

 

[MissBud]

Hi Missbud - First off,

The pump is connected to a fitting that has threads on top and bottom of lid. 1/2" tubing goes to fitting underneath, and a 1/2" hose goes from the top part of the fitting (above the lid) into the tent and to the control bucket. This is how the buckets get flooded. The pump takes the water/nute solution from the reservoir into the tent and floods the buckets to about the 80% level.

Also, there is a second 1/2" tubing run from the outside of the lid to the control bucket in the tent for "draining" the buckets. A pump in the control bucket pumps out the nutrient solution from the buckets back to the reservoir where the tubing connects to the lid. On the bottom of the lid that fitting has no tube connected to it as the nutrients just dump into the reservoir after the 15 minute flood event.

I don't know how well I just described all that!

I think the best thing I can do for you is post this video. Instead of using the 55 gallon drum that the full kit comes with (shown in the video), I used the rubbermaid trash bin that I bought separately. So, just imagine my Rubbermaid trash bin in place of the barrel in the video - that's what I was trying to emulate.

The connections for the reservoir are featured at about the 3:40 mark of the video:

Titan Controls - Flo-N-Gro - YouTube

Hope that helps, let me know if you still have other questions...

Great layout, X

It seems Ebb and flow is easier to maintain than DWC especially with that controller. Your modifications are flawless, being able to check ph at night would be a perk for sure.


too much amigo!