DopyLemontree's High Brix Soil Blend - Headband OG & Bubblegum Combo Grow Jour

[CannaCountry]

Re: DopyLemontree's DocBud High Brix Soil Blend - Headband OG & Bubblegum Combo Grow

Good Morning Dopy,

I will attempt to keep this brief for the sake of not turning your journal into a point of debate or to turn focus away from what you're doing. I respect all the time you've put into this journal thus far and I don't want to skew that with things that may be better discussed elsewhere. However, I would like to address a few points being so many other members (you included) took time out of their day to share their thoughts on the "High Brix" subject. So without further ado; thank you Dopy, Duggan, Morglie and StoneyMemoirs for the replies and your thoughts. They are greatly appreciated!

Let me start by saying, I understand all the biological concepts that were noted. I understand the relationship between soil and plant, and like all of you, I'm inclined to believe in Organics vs. the other forms of growing. In short I agree with most of what has been discussed at this point. The only thing I don't agree with is the rigidity imposed by (you must do this and you must do that) the process. Plants are adaptive in nature. Different strains grow differently in comparison to other strains, some require more of this, some require less of that. This is most noted in looking at some of the different journals here being grown under the High Brix banner. Some I've seen have looked nice...nice, average plants that one would expect to see from a healthy garden, others I've seen have looked less than stellar and others have looked almost too good to be true, almost plastic looking, as if paraffin wax had been sprayed on the leaves (super shiny). I believe there is always room for improvement, there's always another way to skin the cat, etc; otherwise, we'd all still be rolling around in Model T's. But, but...let's not make this a point of debate; let's move on to Brix.

Brix is a measurement, based on the refractive index of a liquid, stated in degrees, which notes the % of Sucrose in a liquid. In industry, Sucrose is reciprocal with 'Solids' and 'Sugar'. What Brix isn't is a measure of minerals, other substances or a combination of the former. Now, I'm not suggesting that there isn't a relationship between high mineral content (whatever or however that's determined) and high brix, but the measurement on your refract has nothing to do with it. However, again, this isn't something I want to debate per se. We all believe what we believe, based on our experiences, what we're told and what we learn. No worries if you don't agree. Again, if we all agreed, we'd all still be driving Model T's...or Porsches...haha.

Moving forward, I go back to my questions in my earlier post:

"When you state your refract gave you a Brix of let's say 12; what does that number mean to you? What does it represent in terms of what your 'kit' tells you? What is the correlation between Brix value in terms of cannabis leaves and the quality / potency of your flowers?" Aside from doing what the 'kit' instructions say, and doing it blindly, do you know the who, what, where, how and why behind it? I don't...and this is why I'm interested and why I brought this up. Again, I'm not bashing anyone or any growing process, I really just want to learn.

Maybe this will help me understand things a little better, based on my own experience. Please, if ya'll know the answers to my questions below, please share, and if you don't please share your thoughts anyhow; this is how we (I) learn. This is all about learning for me, and not so much about growing Cannabis; I have a pretty solid growing process in place. It's more about taking something I've studied and dealt with on a daily basis for years and applying it, or not, to Cannabis in whatever form that may take.

So here are a few additional questions to get started:

What is the process of taking your sample, whether it be leaves or flowers? Does the 'kit' give you directions on this process? I'm making this up but I would venture to say it might go something like this: "Take 3 fan leaves from the middle of the plant, but only after watering the plant with RO water, and only after the lights have been on for 2 hours. Crush the 3 leaves using a pestle and mortar, for 3 minutes, add 5ml of distilled water, be sure the sample has no air bubbles in it, be sure the sample is Xº Fahrenheit or Celsius, place X amount of sample on the refract, record the number, etc" Any measurement for Brix, I've ever done, has had a process tied to it, otherwise, consistency is lost and your readings are basically meaningless. FYI, Temperature, sample dilution, air bubbles, and a myriad of other variables all influence the refractive index of the sample and thus the Brix value.

Does your kit tell you what refract to use? Can any of you note which refract you're using? Do you calibrate your refracts and if so, what is the process?

So let's say you run a sample, however the process, and you get a Brix reading of 10º, does the kit tell you how to interpret this number? In other words what does it mean in terms of the kit?

More importantly if you do get a reading of 10º, is it noted in the kit on what to do to get the plant up to let's say a 14º Brix? I know how to influence Brix in a solution, up or down using mathematics (yes, there is a formula), but I don't know how that applies to this situation, which is why I pose the question.

Ok, enough of the learning process at this point. I'm very interested in knowing all your thoughts, but at the same time I don't want to de-rail Mr. Dopy's journal. With that being said I'm still learning this forum and how things work (like only being able to send PM's after 50 posts or whatever it is), so if there is a better way to further our discussion without affecting DL's journal, I'm all for it. Of course if DL doesn't care, then this is as good as place as any to discuss these things, but he needs to make that call.

Thanks a lot gang; I do appreciate everyone's input and insight thus far. Feel free to express your thoughts and ideas; I would enjoy knowing what each of you has to share. Again, I'm not criticizing any of your processes or ideas; it's evident, just based on DL's journal, that the process works...I simply want to know more of the 'who, what, when, why and where' behind it, especially as it pertains to Brix. Based on what you guys have said so far, I'm going to run a few little experiments myself and see what I come up with; it may prove to be a learning experience for all of us.

Thanks again; everyone have a fantastic Friday and a great weekend!

 

[StoneyMemoirs]

Re: DopyLemontree's DocBud High Brix Soil Blend - Headband OG & Bubblegum Combo Grow

Good Morning Dopy,

I will attempt to keep this brief for the sake of not turning your journal into a point of debate or to turn focus away from what you're doing. I respect all the time you've put into this journal thus far and I don't want to skew that with things that may be better discussed elsewhere. However, I would like to address a few points being so many other members (you included) took time out of their day to share their thoughts on the "High Brix" subject. So without further ado; thank you Dopy, Duggan, Morglie and StoneyMemoirs for the replies and your thoughts. They are greatly appreciated!

Let me start by saying, I understand all the biological concepts that were noted. I understand the relationship between soil and plant, and like all of you, I'm inclined to believe in Organics vs. the other forms of growing. In short I agree with most of what has been discussed at this point. The only thing I don't agree with is the rigidity imposed by (you must do this and you must do that) the process. Plants are adaptive in nature. Different strains grow differently in comparison to other strains, some require more of this, some require less of that. This is most noted in looking at some of the different journals here being grown under the High Brix banner. Some I've seen have looked nice...nice, average plants that one would expect to see from a healthy garden, others I've seen have looked less than stellar and others have looked almost too good to be true, almost plastic looking, as if paraffin wax had been sprayed on the leaves (super shiny). I believe there is always room for improvement, there's always another way to skin the cat, etc; otherwise, we'd all still be rolling around in Model T's. But, but...let's not make this a point of debate; let's move on to Brix.

Brix is a measurement, based on the refractive index of a liquid, stated in degrees, which notes the % of Sucrose in a liquid. In industry, Sucrose is reciprocal with 'Solids' and 'Sugar'. What Brix isn't is a measure of minerals, other substances or a combination of the former. Now, I'm not suggesting that there isn't a relationship between high mineral content (whatever or however that's determined) and high brix, but the measurement on your refract has nothing to do with it. However, again, this isn't something I want to debate per se. We all believe what we believe, based on our experiences, what we're told and what we learn. No worries if you don't agree. Again, if we all agreed, we'd all still be driving Model T's...or Porsches...haha.

Moving forward, I go back to my questions in my earlier post:

"When you state your refract gave you a Brix of let's say 12; what does that number mean to you? What does it represent in terms of what your 'kit' tells you? What is the correlation between Brix value in terms of cannabis leaves and the quality / potency of your flowers?" Aside from doing what the 'kit' instructions say, and doing it blindly, do you know the who, what, where, how and why behind it? I don't...and this is why I'm interested and why I brought this up. Again, I'm not bashing anyone or any growing process, I really just want to learn.

Maybe this will help me understand things a little better, based on my own experience. Please, if ya'll know the answers to my questions below, please share, and if you don't please share your thoughts anyhow; this is how we (I) learn. This is all about learning for me, and not so much about growing Cannabis; I have a pretty solid growing process in place. It's more about taking something I've studied and dealt with on a daily basis for years and applying it, or not, to Cannabis in whatever form that may take.

So here are a few additional questions to get started:

What is the process of taking your sample, whether it be leaves or flowers? Does the 'kit' give you directions on this process? I'm making this up but I would venture to say it might go something like this: "Take 3 fan leaves from the middle of the plant, but only after watering the plant with RO water, and only after the lights have been on for 2 hours. Crush the 3 leaves using a pestle and mortar, for 3 minutes, add 5ml of distilled water, be sure the sample has no air bubbles in it, be sure the sample is Xº Fahrenheit or Celsius, place X amount of sample on the refract, record the number, etc" Any measurement for Brix, I've ever done, has had a process tied to it, otherwise, consistency is lost and your readings are basically meaningless. FYI, Temperature, sample dilution, air bubbles, and a myriad of other variables all influence the refractive index of the sample and thus the Brix value.

Does your kit tell you what refract to use? Can any of you note which refract you're using? Do you calibrate your refracts and if so, what is the process?

So let's say you run a sample, however the process, and you get a Brix reading of 10º, does the kit tell you how to interpret this number? In other words what does it mean in terms of the kit?

More importantly if you do get a reading of 10º, is it noted in the kit on what to do to get the plant up to let's say a 14º Brix? I know how to influence Brix in a solution, up or down using mathematics (yes, there is a formula), but I don't know how that applies to this situation, which is why I pose the question.

Ok, enough of the learning process at this point. I'm very interested in knowing all your thoughts, but at the same time I don't want to de-rail Mr. Dopy's journal. With that being said I'm still learning this forum and how things work (like only being able to send PM's after 50 posts or whatever it is), so if there is a better way to further our discussion without affecting DL's journal, I'm all for it. Of course if DL doesn't care, then this is as good as place as any to discuss these things, but he needs to make that call.

Thanks a lot gang; I do appreciate everyone's input and insight thus far. Feel free to express your thoughts and ideas; I would enjoy knowing what each of you has to share. Again, I'm not criticizing any of your processes or ideas; it's evident, just based on DL's journal, that the process works...I simply want to know more of the 'who, what, when, why and where' behind it, especially as it pertains to Brix. Based on what you guys have said so far, I'm going to run a few little experiments myself and see what I come up with; it may prove to be a learning experience for all of us.

Thanks again; everyone have a fantastic Friday and a great weekend!

Hey CC--I'm off to work here, but didn't want to leave ALL of these questions untouched

For me, 12 Brix and higher means no pests--I know some others battle with mites, though they're mitigated without pesticides, in large part in thanks to the strengths of these plants. It also means if I forget to water them for a day, I know they'll bounce right back. So they're more heat tolerant, drought tolerant, pest tolerant, in my experience. They get that waxy look around 13 often, for me. Haven't been past 14 more than once or twice, and for those plants (like this Golden Tiger plant I had--the world took it from us, sadly) that hit 14+, I think it's the ultra-fine balances and environment-to-specific-strain pairings that are in play. I'm not claiming to be a scientist, this is just my understanding if what's happening.

Then there's the taste--a lot of folks who taste the stuff I grow say it's tastes sweet, or like candy. That's the calcium, I imagine, and my proclivity for finishing my grows with Growth Energy, one of the kit products that I like to use in leaving my own 'signature' in my bud. I don't flush my soil, cause that would kill me ERGS. ERGS is how we can measure soil energy (a literal electrical charge) and, like brix, tends to be a great indicator (to your point yes--correlation, not causation) of the things we're looking for in the soils/plants.

As for taking the reading--I used to brew a lot of beer (and a few ribbons under my belt, to boot!) and I can tell you the brand of refractometer doesn't matter too much, so long as it's calibrated. Each one has it's own instructions for that, for I've been using my cheapie $35 one for years. It compensates for temperature, a bit. The process: Grab a leaf (not the biggest or darkest, just a good, yes mid-shelf, average leaf) and crush it. Take two leaves if you need it to get 3-4 drops total, then I drop those on the refracto, press out the air and distribute the liquid, then hold it up to the light for a reading. Easy peasy.

As for goin up in Brix--I've found two things to be paramount. #1 (this is not a joke)--Follow the kit instructions. #2 (also not a joke)--Get your environment right.

If people do those two things, it just seems impossible NOT to get 13+.


Hope this helps!

Sorry to reply and run, life calls--hope to get to the rest soon. Sorry Dopy, couldn't help myself

--Stoney

 

[Rooster1]

Re: DopyLemontree's DocBud High Brix Soil Blend - Headband OG & Bubblegum Combo Grow

 

[Beavis]

Re: DopyLemontree's DocBud High Brix Soil Blend - Headband OG & Bubblegum Combo Grow

 

[Graytail]

Re: DopyLemontree's DocBud High Brix Soil Blend - Headband OG & Bubblegum Combo Grow

CannaCountry, I can try to answer a few of your questions.

I've been using Doc Bud's system for as long as he's been making the Kit available but I've been using it mostly as a blackbox. Few of us have taken the time to understand plant metabolism the way you must. Actually, the best part of the Kit is that you don't HAVE to know what's going on. After awhile, we began to get the bigger picture.

As far as Brix and cannabis, there aren't good data to explain what might be happening. I've grown some 60+ plants under the system over a period of three years, and took readings of each plant once a week - lotsa readings. In that way, I've gotten a feel for how that is related to what I see in plant health, and also in the quality of the harvest. At 12 or higher, it starts to become clear that the plant is in generally better health - looks, posture, color, growth rate, etc. At 14 it usually isn't clear that the plant is better than one that reads a 12. At harvest, the very high numbers come into play. There is a very distinct excellence in produce from a plant that reads 18 before harvest. Dramatic, unmistakable excellence. Terpenes will be very strong and generally sweeter than usual. Potency will be at the plant's potential level. The buds will remain fresh in the jar longer, both in terpene expression and in texture and color. On the other end of the scale, plants that read 10 - 12 at harvest have not been less than great - just not exceptional.

So there seems to be a sort of acceptable level around 10-12, and then an excellent level at 16-18. Some of us have gotten readings into the mid-20s, but it's hard to know if they were reliable, or contaminated.

To my knowledge, none of us use any water in the fluid extraction and possibly only Doc bothers with a mortar and pestle. I did a writeup a few years ago in this thread. How to take brix measurements

Most DBHBB users don't take Brix measurements, and almost none do it on a regular basis, so we haven't built up a database for how to fix any problems we discover. The plants themselves usually show issues without a measurement. Even I had a hard time deciding what to do about a low reading from a plant. I ended up using it as a longer term measure - if the plant didn't improve in a couple weeks I'd take it seriously. Some phenos naturally read higher or lower, though. Anyway, we aren't at the stage where we can take a reading in the morning, apply a foliar, and then take a reading in the evening to see if it improved - still way primitive on that score.


[Edit] If you read through my first journal - in my signature at the bottom - Graytail's Cupwinners - you'll see my own progression with the Kit, and every update includes Brix readings to compare to photos of the plants.

 

[CannaCountry]

Re: DopyLemontree's DocBud High Brix Soil Blend - Headband OG & Bubblegum Combo Grow

Stoney, Graytail; Good Morning.

Thank you both for the explanations and your time. Each read reveals a little more to my inquiring mind.

I think I'll read through your journal Graytail...if you took readings throughout, it will be interesting to see the data and how those readings progressed in comparison to your grow.

BTW, thanks for not busting my balls. I know on some forums and in life, sometimes when someone asks questions outside of the norm, they're considered less than or trying to cause problems...I appreciate your 'gentlemanly' replies.

 

[Rooster1]

Re: DopyLemontree's DocBud High Brix Soil Blend - Headband OG & Bubblegum Combo Grow

Stoney, Graytail; Good Morning.

Thank you both for the explanations and your time. Each read reveals a little more to my inquiring mind.

I think I'll read through your journal Graytail...if you took readings throughout, it will be interesting to see the data and how those readings progressed in comparison to your grow.

BTW, thanks for not busting my balls. I know on some forums and in life, sometimes when someone asks questions outside of the norm, they're considered less than or trying to cause problems...I appreciate your 'gentlemanly' replies.

Hey CC, I don't ever recall any of these Brix Masters say anything about someone asking a question here. That's how this Ole Bird learns. I'm sure DL has no problem with any of these questions and answers.... I'm just getting my feet wet with the Brix so believe you me, if Ole Rooster has a question, I ask!
Let me say this, I've never met a bunch of good , down to earth individuals anywhere, than I've found here. You and I both are lucky that we found such.
Have a great day CC and DopyLemon thanks for the use of your journal as a learning tool ......

 

[DopyLemontree]

Re: DopyLemontree's DocBud High Brix Soil Blend - Headband OG & Bubblegum Combo Grow

CC, Graytail, StonyMemoirs, all of you, thanks for the in depth questions and answers here. Please use this journal as you are, sharing knowledge. I love it!

CC you ask such interesting questions, and Gray and Stony answered them eloquently, pulling in experience that goes back to the beginning.

I look at using Doc's kit and driving a car as analogous in some respects. You don't need to know all the inner workings to use either of them, all of that has been figured out... follow the manual and your good....But for those who are inquisitive, you can seek out how it all works and gain a better understanding of what's going on, and be in a position to tweak things for high performance, or to troubleshoot if things go south.

Everything that Stonie and Gray speak of is now what I know about brix and how it relates to our plant health...not from my experience, but from their shared experience.

I am just beginning to have those experiences myself, which is my best teacher.

No other system of growing system that I know of can take a newby, and in a few grows have them producing small batches of connoisseur grade cannabis, backed with the best support community here. I mean it is genius, and exactly what I was seeking.

CC thank you for your questions and please feel free to express yourself here, everyone is welcome.

 

[Duggan]

Re: DopyLemontree's DocBud High Brix Soil Blend - Headband OG & Bubblegum Combo Grow

Stoney, Graytail; Good Morning.

Thank you both for the explanations and your time. Each read reveals a little more to my inquiring mind.

I think I'll read through your journal Graytail...if you took readings throughout, it will be interesting to see the data and how those readings progressed in comparison to your grow.

BTW, thanks for not busting my balls. I know on some forums and in life, sometimes when someone asks questions outside of the norm, they're considered less than or trying to cause problems...I appreciate your 'gentlemanly' replies.

Good morning to you CC. Just thought i would throw this out there. Please feel completely at ease asking questions in this neighborhood. Feel comfortable with our HB group here. Most of us also have the same sort of questions as you and are really only starting to figure things out as far as the correlation between Brix readings and plant health. A lot of this is because using Doc's 'kit' and methods to achieve this 'coveted' high brix produces very healthy plants reliably and is repeated time after time. We /me are so comfortable seeing our plants so healthy that we/i find no real need to take repeated brix readings. I presently have a Refractometer , still in it's box , never used. I suppose that is also because of the time factor involved in it as well. Anyhow , not sure if you got a proper welcome to this neighborhood. Would like to offer you a big warm welcome to the 'mag' and especially this neighborhood. Please feel free to get around to some of the other HB growers journals,..just to get a feel for our group .Doc's Q and A thread is a great place to ask questions as Doc is always there 'on point' answering any , and all questions relating to plant health and his coveted 'kit'. Myself , like Graytail have been using it since the very beginning , about 5 yrs, now and have seen it evolve ever so slightly over the last few yrs. or so. Anyhow , you are very welcome to ask any thing you like and we (the gang) will NOT discourage you doing so.
Welcome to 420 Mag. CC..have an awesome day and long weekend would ya!

Top of the mornin to ya DL and friends!

 

[Mag7]

Re: DopyLemontree's DocBud High Brix Soil Blend - Headband OG & Bubblegum Combo Grow

I have to say this is the most interesting read on the "Mag" today. CC you have asked all the questions I have hurried deep in my brain that I have wanted to ask but didn't know to ask, making this my priority read. I hope Doc jumps in here and can add to the convo.

Doppy, I'm glad to hear things are looking better at home and I hope the wifey is feeling much better today!! Hope to also see some garden pics and details updates soon. You know I won't have the details in my journal like you do I need to get then here lol.

Have a good weekend you all and pray for Texas or keep them in your thoughts if you don't by pray. A lot of people have come together during this tragedy and it goes to show that not all people in this country are angry violent racist like the media portrays. There is so much love and support going on, it's amazing.

Ok, I'm done, take care DL and the gang!!

 

[DopyLemontree]

Re: DopyLemontree's DocBud High Brix Soil Blend - Headband OG & Bubblegum Combo Grow

I have to say this is the most interesting read on the "Mag" today. CC you have asked all the questions I have hurried deep in my brain that I have wanted to ask but didn't know to ask, making this my priority read. I hope Doc jumps in here and can add to the convo.

Doppy, I'm glad to hear things are looking better at home and I hope the wifey is feeling much better today!! Hope to also see some garden pics and details updates soon. You know I won't have the details in my journal like you do I need to get then here lol.

Have a good weekend you all and pray for Texas or keep them in your thoughts if you don't by pray. A lot of people have come together during this tragedy and it goes to show that not all people in this country are angry violent racist like the media portrays. There is so much love and support going on, it's amazing.

Ok, I'm done, take care DL and the gang!!

Hi Mag

Great read it is! The vets have such great info to share...and CC asked some intelligent questions.

Docs a busy man, and only getting busier. I don't think he has the time to surf all the HB journals, so usually if I want his opinion, I post over at his journal.

The Mrs is doing well, not back to work, but making forward progress. We have some more tests next week.

Yes pray for Texas, tons of donations being trucked down there from the North East...I know trucks were leaving today from Boston with supplies.

Ok next post will be an update...

Turn the page...

 

[DopyLemontree]

Re: DopyLemontree's DocBud High Brix Soil Blend - Headband OG & Bubblegum Combo Grow

Update:

Thursday night at 39 days PF

Gave the BG, and 2- BD's a Super Drench, they were fading hard and needed a boost to kick start the soil biota.

Moved the two OG's to the edge of the garden, as I will be giving them a super Drench on Saturday..tonight. They are on their own schedule, lagging the others by three days drenchwise.

OG's

BD in the back, BG in the middle, OG's up front

The clones got their first GE drench, Doc style...dunk'em in the buckets for 5 mins and then lift and tilt to drain off the perched Drench water.

Took some pics last night too at 40 days pf

OG's

Top canopy

Clones loved their drench dunk yesterday

Cheers!

 

[Graytail]

Re: DopyLemontree's DocBud High Brix Soil Blend - Headband OG & Bubblegum Combo Grow

I think I'll read through your journal Graytail...if you took readings throughout, it will be interesting to see the data and how those readings progressed in comparison to your grow.

I just checked myself, and I didn't start posting readings until page 20 or so - probably a good idea to skip ahead.

 

[Morglie]

Re: DopyLemontree's DocBud High Brix Soil Blend - Headband OG & Bubblegum Combo Grow

Great convo going here. CC, you really have stumbled onto a unique place here. This is the only place I've found online for cannabis growing that isn't inundated with trolls and a**holes. And it just so happens that Doc is here.

I've never taken readings, although I did just order a refractometer last night. I'm interested to see what I get, but there isn't any stringent reading protocol that I've seen beyond, making sure that you are always being consistent yourself, so that you have accurate numbers that you can compare to see if the overall health of the plant is improving.

Before starting to grow cannabis almost 2 years ago, I had never grown anything besides putting some plants outside in the ground and occasionally watering them. I came into growing really having absolutely no clue of what I was doing. The true beauty of Doc's kit, is that it really is almost idiot proof. If you follow directions and pay attention to what the plants are doing, you can really turn out exceptional product with very little knowledge. And once you continue to do that, and if you are paying attention to the results are when you do different things, you start to get an understanding of how everything ties together. Something that I've noticed when Doc is trouble shooting things for people. Are they following directions? Yes, then how is your environment? The system is simple enough, that most problems come down to environmental issues as opposed to what you did. It is also very forgiving for those of us that have a tendency to veer off the beaten path. I'm one that's guilty of doing that regularly, and I still manage to grow as good, if not better than anything around me. Doc has really put a lot of work into designing a system that even a bunch of stoners can use and grow exceptional produce.

I really don't have nearly as good of understanding of true high brix gardening as I would like, but I've read enough, to know that it is something that would be beneficial to the health of myself and my family through implementing it with our food crops.

Looking good in here DL. I'm glad to hear that things are progressing with your wife. Mine just got to come home today. There is still plenty of testing that needs to be done, but doing that as an outpatient, is so much better than living at the hospital. Things are starting to feel a bit more normal again.

Peace

 

[dajerm119]

Re: DopyLemontree's DocBud High Brix Soil Blend - Headband OG & Bubblegum Combo Grow

Damn your ladies are looking so pretty! Great work DL!!
Loving the Conversation as well, very intelligent and insightful.

 

[Doc Bud]

Re: DopyLemontree's DocBud High Brix Soil Blend - Headband OG & Bubblegum Combo Grow

"When you state your refract gave you a Brix of let's say 12; what does that number mean to you? What does it represent in terms of what your 'kit' tells you? What is the correlation between Brix value in terms of cannabis leaves and the quality / potency of your flowers?" Aside from doing what the 'kit' instructions say, and doing it blindly, do you know the who, what, where, how and why behind it? I don't...and this is why I'm interested and why I brought this up. Again, I'm not bashing anyone or any growing process, I really just want to learn.

Hi CC. You asked so many questions I just couldn't answer them all, so I focused on this which you kinda asked two different posts.

"When you state your refract gave you a Brix of let's say 12; what does that number mean to you?

Most crops have a range of Brix numbers that can be used as a poor-average-good-better-great scale. This information is readily available on the Internet if you're interested.

There were no numbers in the literature for cannabis.....so I started testing and based my first measurements on Hops. I found that my healthiest plants were above 12, topping out at about 18 Brix on my best day. Others have confirmed these numbers, while others have fantastically higher numbers which I haven't been able to duplicate.

So, for indoor cannabis, we see a range of 7 to 18 for Brix readings. Nasty hydro and troubled coco grows will register on the low side, and gorgeous organic soil grows will register higher.

What does it represent in terms of what your 'kit' tells you?

I'm not sure what you're asking here. The "kit" doesn't talk or use sign language. If the plants are super high brix we know things are working well. If they're not, we start looking for problems. Standard gardening.

What is the correlation between Brix value in terms of cannabis leaves and the quality / potency of your flowers?"

Higher brix=more terps, different smells and tastes and an unusually good effect. Other than lab testing, this is subjective. Lab testing show that terpenes are very high in High Brix produce, but we can smell that for ourselves if we like. Our noses are far more sensitive than the lab.

Aside from doing what the 'kit' instructions say, and doing it blindly, do you know the who, what, where, how and why behind it? I don't...and this is why I'm interested and why I brought this up. Again, I'm not bashing anyone or any growing process, I really just want to learn.

This is a funny question. You come into the discussion proclaiming a possibly vast knowledge of "Brix" and you ask this question?

Surely you understand that we're trying to create a living soil with optimal mineral composition, CEC and microbial activity. This is based on the work of Carey Reams and those who have further researched and implemented his ideas for decades.

I'm taking that work into Cannabis and specifically in such a way that "the little guy" can grow elite level cannabis on a small scale. Or a big scale....but definitely a small scale.

A good growing method must be: affordable, reproducible, able to allow the plant to express its maximum genetic potential, non-toxic/environmentally sound.

If you're lucky enough to live in a place with rich, volcanic soil, perfect temperatures, humidity, photoperiod and rainfall....you're already High Brix. Just go friggin' garden.

But for those of us who don't have nature's perfect environment for cannabis on our property, we can re-create it with my kit.

 

[Doc Bud]

Re: DopyLemontree's DocBud High Brix Soil Blend - Headband OG & Bubblegum Combo Grow

Brix is a measurement, based on the refractive index of a liquid, stated in degrees, which notes the % of Sucrose in a liquid. In industry, Sucrose is reciprocal with 'Solids' and 'Sugar'. What Brix isn't is a measure of minerals, other substances or a combination of the former. Now, I'm not suggesting that there isn't a relationship between high mineral content (whatever or however that's determined) and high brix, but the measurement on your refract has nothing to do with it. However, again, this isn't something I want to debate per se. We all believe what we believe, based on our experiences, what we're told and what we learn. No worries if you don't agree. Again, if we all agreed, we'd all still be driving Model T's...or Porsches...haha.

!

Refractometers are used to measure much more than just Sucrose. You have more years of experience, apparently, but a refractometer can and does read much more than just Sucrose.

I'll skip the peer reviewed journals and research paper citations and just cut to the chase:

Here's refractometer just like the one I use.
Oil Refractometer

Here's the produuct description: Description

This refractometer is a precision optical instrument that allows for the rapid and accurate determination of the refractive index of liquid solutions. It will specifically assist the service technician in determining the percent residual of oil remaining in a refrigeration system when converting it to a new refrigeration system when converting it to a new refrigeration oil. Such retrofits require converting the mineral oil to a polyolester (POE) or polyalkylene glycol (PAG), an alkylbenzene lubricant (Zerol®) to a POE, or a mineral oil to an alkylbenzene. With careful use and storage, this refractometer will provide years of service.

No talk of sucrose here. Lots of stuff has a refractive index, not just Sucrose.

So, when we measure "Brix" in our samples, we're not just measuring Sucrose. Glucose, mineral compounds, oils, fats....everything that will bend light.

So, you kinda said "Hey, here are the facts....ya'll can believe whatever you want, I don't want to debate, but it only measures sugar..."

Well. That's simply not true. It's not even controversial. Industry uses brix meters for all kinds of non-sucrose related applications. Is it mostly sugar? Yes....but it's not mostly sucrose and it's not only sugar that we measure.

So, my turn to ask a question.

Since you already have knowledge of all kinds of things like what we do, what do you REALLY want to ask me? Are you trying to grow better weed? That's what we're all trying to do. We're using science and nature...especially where the two meet. What's your grow method? Soil mix? Brix readings? Lab tests? Photos? Watering tech? Harvesting Tech? Curing method?

Ha.....I asked more than one....but not as many as you. What's your connection with Cannabis?

Trust me, if you've got amazing plants, we're all ears. Seriously, we really are.

 

[Tony Urban]

Re: DopyLemontree's DocBud High Brix Soil Blend - Headband OG & Bubblegum Combo Grow

Those familiar with forest fires, and red fire retardant, may be interested to know that a refractometer is used to test the salt content of the mixture. Since poly ammonium phosphate is the active ingredient (fertilizer). They take this measurement using a handheld refractometer multiple times each load. Every time they load. Thousands of times each summer over dozens of bases.

Just thought I would throw that out there since there we were talking refracts lol

 

[Doc Bud]

Re: DopyLemontree's DocBud High Brix Soil Blend - Headband OG & Bubblegum Combo Grow

Those familiar with forest fires, and red fire retardant, may be interested to know that a refractometer is used to test the salt content of the mixture. Since poly ammonium phosphate is the active ingredient (fertilizer). They take this measurement using a handheld refractometer multiple times each load. Every time they load. Thousands of times each summer over dozens of bases.

Just thought I would throw that out there since there we were talking refracts lol

Yup. I think we can set aside the notion that it only measures Sucrose. This may have come about via the wine industry. Right now we've got a heat wave that's breaking records and brix is climbing in the grapes and harvest is coming early. With grapes, brix=sugar+.001other stuff that can bend light.

But cannabis, radishes, celery, hops, spinach, garlic, onions.....and lots of other crops that can be brix tested don't have as much sugar in relation to the other compounds compared to grapes.

So, we're not just testing for sugars! We're testing for NUTRIENT DENSITY. Sugars, proteins, fats, mineral compounds.....

OK. Dead horse beaten to death. Again.

 

[DopyLemontree]

Re: DopyLemontree's DocBud High Brix Soil Blend - Headband OG & Bubblegum Combo Grow

Great convo going here. CC, you really have stumbled onto a unique place here. This is the only place I've found online for cannabis growing that isn't inundated with trolls and a**holes. And it just so happens that Doc is here.

I've never taken readings, although I did just order a refractometer last night. I'm interested to see what I get, but there isn't any stringent reading protocol that I've seen beyond, making sure that you are always being consistent yourself, so that you have accurate numbers that you can compare to see if the overall health of the plant is improving.

Before starting to grow cannabis almost 2 years ago, I had never grown anything besides putting some plants outside in the ground and occasionally watering them. I came into growing really having absolutely no clue of what I was doing. The true beauty of Doc's kit, is that it really is almost idiot proof. If you follow directions and pay attention to what the plants are doing, you can really turn out exceptional product with very little knowledge. And once you continue to do that, and if you are paying attention to the results are when you do different things, you start to get an understanding of how everything ties together. Something that I've noticed when Doc is trouble shooting things for people. Are they following directions? Yes, then how is your environment? The system is simple enough, that most problems come down to environmental issues as opposed to what you did. It is also very forgiving for those of us that have a tendency to veer off the beaten path. I'm one that's guilty of doing that regularly, and I still manage to grow as good, if not better than anything around me. Doc has really put a lot of work into designing a system that even a bunch of stoners can use and grow exceptional produce.

I really don't have nearly as good of understanding of true high brix gardening as I would like, but I've read enough, to know that it is something that would be beneficial to the health of myself and my family through implementing it with our food crops.

Looking good in here DL. I'm glad to hear that things are progressing with your wife. Mine just got to come home today. There is still plenty of testing that needs to be done, but doing that as an outpatient, is so much better than living at the hospital. Things are starting to feel a bit more normal again.

Peace

Thanks for sharing Morglie! So ya got a refractometer order?... Nice! I was looking at my refractometer last week, and thought...Heck.. I'm growing high brix cannabis, and I don't even know my brix numbers of my plants! Got to start taking occasional readings to compare with what I see, smell, and taste. I can see how at first it is a novelty, and after you gain experience, one may not measure as often.

Good news your lady is back home. Let's keep her there now! You've got a homestead to run.