Keffka's Recycling, KOS Blue Thai, Herbies Seeds Apple Betty, Runtz Punch

[Azimuth]

So jealous of you worm farmers, not yet but one day hopefully!! I’d be interested to try small amounts of rosemary and clove as worm food for potential of pest deterrence capabilities. Wonder if Azi or anyone has tried this?

I have not. I do add neem, karanja and crustacean meals which supposedly do have pest deterrent properties and next season I'll add sunchoke to that list, but have never tried rosemary nor clove.

 

[Gee64]

How much do you fill up each tray? The starting coco brick and instructions they gave me will have the entire tray almost full, I’d say 80-90% of it

I do it like lasagna. I do a layer of coco or sometimes used soil, then a dusting of the rock dust mixture, then a layer of scraps, a layer of coco or soil, a layer of scraps, etc. Then under the final cap of coco I put another layer of dust.

2 weeks later it has settled so I add another layer of scraps and then more coco, and set the next tray on top.

 

[Keffka]

Score! Thanks to @SmokingWings store recommendation I was able to find locally sourced rabbit compost cheap, where the rabbits are fed alfalfa meal so the triacontanol is readily processed.

 

[Keffka]

Here is how we know once myco is established in your soil, you don’t need to keep adding more. This is coco mixed with old soil. This soil is from the two reject plants earlier this summer. The soil sat bone dry since August. I mixed it with coco 2 days ago and sprayed it with water and you can already see the mycelium spreading through the container. It won’t find what it’s looking for and will go dormant.

@Gee64 does myco survive the worms?

 

[Gee64]

Here is how we know once myco is established in your soil, you don’t need to keep adding more. This is coco mixed with old soil. This soil is from the two reject plants earlier this summer. The soil sat bone dry since August. I mixed it with coco 2 days ago and sprayed it with water and you can already see the mycelium spreading through the container. It won’t find what it’s looking for and will go dormant.

@Gee64 does myco survive the worms?

It does. Not 100%, but some comes thru and thats all you need, but I prefer using some parts used soil in my mix to innoculate that way, it's stronger, but I also always include used soil in every other worm tray, at least 1 layer. It's free so why not.

It's easy to test, just mix fresh ewc,coco, and dried organic rice in a tub and give it a few days in the dark. Sprinkle the rice across the top and spray it wet, then leave it sit with the lid on for a few days to a week.

Don't mix the rice in, leave it on top. Some warmth helps too.

I find shallow wide tubs grow it quicker than deeper narrower ones.

I think it's actually the spores that get thru. The live myco doesn't make it.

It grows all fuzzy on the top of a new worm tray if you put used soil on top, but a week later its gone.

 

[Keffka]

I think it's actually the spores that get thru. The live myco doesn't make it

I’ll have to do a bit of reading. I don’t know how the process works once myco loses its host plant. Does it immediately go into dormancy? Does it throw spores? Or is it a case of, the myco that established in the roots has gone dormant but the spores it chucked the whole grow are still actively looking for a connection. I’ll bring the answers back when I find them if no one else chimes in.

 

[Melville Hobbes]

the myco that established in the roots has gone dormant but the spores it chucked the whole grow are still actively looking for a connection.

This.
They reactivate when they come into contact with a root.

 

[Keffka]

This.
They reactivate when they come into contact with a root.

So where I’m stuck at with this is, a sort of Chicken or the egg argument. In my worm bin, or soil bin, there are no live roots or plants. However, under the right conditions, hyphae begin growing. If myco was alive and connected to a plant in the soil, then I remove that plant, the myco goes dormant. However, when I mix that same soil into my worm bin, hyphae begin appearing as if they’re searching for plant roots even though there is no plant.

I have a feeling it’s the moisture and darkness that triggers the hyphae growth. However what I don’t know is, is this the myco that went dormant or the spores it was throwing? If it takes a live plant root to begin growing, why are we seeing mycelium? Is it that spores are more like seeds than they are fungi and they can activate under different conditions than the myco itself?

Does that make sense? I’m sort of confusing myself but can’t get my thoughts out clearer lol

 

[Melville Hobbes]

Propagules are fragments of myceliae that have been chopped up and gone dormant. They're a cheaper way to make mycorrhizal supplements.
It sounds like that might be what you're seeing.
They have a shorter shelf life than spores, and IIRC aren't as effective for root colonization, but there tend to be a lot of them in recycled soils.

 

[Keffka]

Propagules are fragments of myceliae that have been chopped up and gone dormant. They're a cheaper way to make mycorrhizal supplements.
It sounds like that might be what you're seeing.
They have a shorter shelf life than spores, and IIRC aren't as effective for root colonization, but there tend to be a lot of them in recycled soils.

Ok buckle up, I think I’ve got an answer lol. Endomyco produces what is called a chlamydospore. “Chlamydospores are survival structures formed from an existing hyphal cell or a conidium that develops a thickened wall and cytoplasm packed with lipid reserves”

These chlamydospores can survive both low temperatures and reduced water activity. While it needs oxygen to grow it doesn’t need it to survive, as chlamydospores have been found in outer space. Hyphae will grow out of these spores in search of roots in response to “soluble compounds”. Some rhizosphere microorganisms can also stimulate germination.

So it sounds to me like what I’m seeing is, these chlamydospores are being triggered by the soluble compounds found in the EWC, or because I use RO the water is picking up the compounds as it hits the medium triggering this growth. They don’t last very long because they don’t find any roots.

Here’s where I got the info

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/endomycorrhizae

The other possibility I’m thinking of is ectomyco. I’ll have to go back and check the potting mixes for what they had but the Great White myco comes with ectomyco as well. It could very well be just ectomyco I’m seeing appear, especially because some ectomyco can get a bit of its carbon from decomposing substrates. Since I typically see this occur once I’ve pushed the medium to begin decomposing it could also be that

 

[Azimuth]

In my mind, 1 part perlite TO 4 parts soil is 25%, whereas 1 part perlite AND 4 parts soil is 5 parts total for 20%. I’ve always disliked the “parts” system though lol, there’s room for interpretation and I don’t like that in my measurements lol.

However, like I was saying about perlite, the differences aren’t a lot, just varied, and it’s more about what is applicable for your situation.

The Rev counts it the other way:

"I would start out with my first soil mix running the overall perlite ratio at about 20%, in other words, 1 part perlite to 4 parts soil mix."

Probably doesn't matter a whole lot though, at least with the perlite amendment as you're talking less than a 5% difference either way.

 

[SmokingWings]

Have you checked out any of the articles and web pages on the Michigan State University site regarding vermicompost? It has been going on for about 10 years, give or take, and uses the food scraps from the school's cafeterias and includes some of the paper products including napkins. It has been awhile since I read the articles but I checked and the program is still going.

 

[Keffka]

Have you checked out any of the articles and web pages on the Michigan State University site regarding vermicompost? It has been going on for about 10 years, give or take, and uses the food scraps from the school's cafeterias and includes some of the paper products including napkins. It has been awhile since I read the articles but I checked and the program is still going.

I have not I’ll take a look at them this evening, thanks for the tip

 

[Keffka]

I’ll snap better pics this evening at lights on. The Blue Thais have a couple of mutations going on. Odd leaves, discolorations, etc.

 

[Keffka]

Each Blue Thai has a mutation. I’m wondering if I stored the seeds incorrectly or just luck of the draw

This plant especially, middle vein on the 2nd node, torn leaf tip, odd serrations

Discoloration along the leaf surface on this one

Double tips on one finger

 

[Gee64]

Each Blue Thai has a mutation. I’m wondering if I stored the seeds incorrectly or just luck of the draw

This plant especially, middle vein on the 2nd node, torn leaf tip, odd serrations

Discoloration along the leaf surface on this one

Double tips on one finger

Very cool. Lets see where it goes.

It seems like it's The Season of the Mutants everywhere right now.

 

[Keffka]

I believe the next node also has these double tips coming, hard to be certain but we’ll see soon

 

[Keffka]

Worm bin getting ready for the worms

 

[Keffka]

If you enjoyed The Three Body Problem Netflix show you should check out the books. They’re intense and thought provoking

 

[Keffka]

My own family members forgot there was a war in Afghanistan that I was a part of, I’m not surprised that Americans forget Ukraine.