Keffka's Recycling, KOS Blue Thai, Herbies Seeds Apple Betty, Runtz Punch

[Gee64]

Plant tissue data has shown that the fewer shoots a plant has, the greater its calcium and Nitrogen efficiency is. This would lead to better built, more high quality buds.

I find this to be 100% true. If all you want is the biggest buds you have ever seen in your life, never top your plant and remove all side branching until stretch is over. You get one massive cola.

If you remove all side branching as they grow and take them off when they are under an inch long, the cola will still get even bigger. Push everything to 1 apex.

I do 8 mains manifolded because it's the happy medium. Yield is high and buds are still huge.

4 tops gives bigger buds than 8, but overall yield isn't as much, and at 16 tops the buds are still a very marketable size, but not big, but yield goes up again.

1 main without side branching and yield drops considerably, but the cola is epic.

Everyone should grow at least 1 untopped plant at least once, just to experience that huge cola.

 

[Keffka]

I find this to be 100% true. If all you want is the biggest buds you have ever seen in your life, never top your plant and remove all side branching until stretch is over. You get one massive cola.

If you remove all side branching as they grow and take them off when they are under an inch long, the cola will still get even bigger. Push everything to 1 apex.

I do 8 mains manifolded because it's the happy medium. Yield is high and buds are still huge.

4 tops gives bigger buds than 8, but overall yield isn't as much, and at 16 tops the buds are still a very marketable size, but not big, but yield goes up again.

1 main without side branching and yield drops considerably, but the cola is epic.

Everyone should grow at least 1 untopped plant at least once, just to experience that huge cola.

Untopped plants are vastly easier to grow than topped plants. They’re healthier, more resilient, waste less energy, and use less resources. If a grower is struggling with growing topped plants they should give untopped plants a shot.

A well grown untopped plant will yield more and higher quality buds than a beaten down topped plant will and it will be easier to grow. I know this from experience lol. Topped plants only begin to exceed untopped plants when you’re indoors, grow it correctly, and can have a nice even canopy.

If I’ve got one of the squat Blue Thais I’m gonna run it untopped. Indicas seem to really shine untopped

 

[Keffka]

@Gee64 @Azimuth and anyone else that feeds amendments to their worms. Which amendments do you feed and in what amounts? Do you only amend the tray once or every feeding? I’m looking at my blood meal and gypsum wondering if it’s safe for them.

If it helps I have the vermihut plus, each tray I believe is 5 gallons

 

[Azimuth]

You can put any of those amendments through the bins, but be careful on the blood meal as that can cause it to heat up and cook which your worms won't like. A little is fine.

I take what I expect to be the end harvest of a bin, figure out how much of each amendment I'd want in that volume if it were soil, and then divide that by 8 (I feed a new bin for two months) and that's what they get weekly.

Mine are 7 gallon bins and weekly get whatever kitchen scraps are appropriate, 1Q of compost, 1T each of comfrey and nettle, and 2t of my mineral mix (dusts of sand, char, stone, Azomite, eggshell powder, Oyster shell, Gypsum, etc,) and 1t of my meals mix (neem, karanja, crustacean, malted barley, etc.) Mostly equal parts of each in the mix.

Also 1T of dried flowers, horsetail fern, Xmas tree needles, etc. I treat it like a compost pile and try to get a diversity of inputs.

 

[Keffka]

You can put any of those amendments through the bins, but be careful on the blood meal as that can cause it to heat up and cook which your worms won't like. A little is fine.

I take what I expect to be the end harvest of a bin, figure out how much of each amendment I'd want in that volume if it were soil, and then divide that by 8 (I feed a new bin for two months) and that's what they get weekly.

Mine are 7 gallon bins and weekly get whatever kitchen scraps are appropriate, 1Q of compost, 1T each of comfrey and nettle, and 2t of my mineral mix (dusts of sand, char, stone, Azomite, eggshell powder, Oyster shell, Gypsum, etc,) and 1t of my meals mix (neem, karanja, crustacean, malted barley, etc.) Mostly equal parts of each in the mix.

Also 1T of dried flowers, horsetail fern, Xmas tree needles, etc. I treat it like a compost pile and try to get a diversity of inputs.

What do you use for bedding? Do you keep track of your C:N ratio?

 

[Azimuth]

What do you use for bedding? Do you keep track of your C:N ratio?

For bedding I just use a base layer of compost. And I do not keep track of the C:N ratio. It might work better if I did but probably not more than 10% or so. That ratio's not as important as it is in a compost pile as we're not looking for it to heat up. Quite the opposite, as we don't want it to.

Worms are quite happy in a moist pile of leaves with no N so I figure, as long as I don't have too much green material which would cause it smell, I figure I'm ok.

 

[Gee64]

I use all the rock dusts that are in the recipe, and kelp meal, but oyster shell flour is the only calcium I give the worms.

 

[Gee64]

I use all the rock dusts that are in the recipe, and kelp meal, but oyster shell flour is the only calcium I give the worms.

things like bloodmeal are somewhat pointless imo because all you are adding to the worms is veggie scraps which are high in N already. I do add a lot of weed meal and sometimes alfalfa meal.

 

[Keffka]

I use all the rock dusts that are in the recipe, and kelp meal, but oyster shell flour is the only calcium I give the worms.

things like bloodmeal are somewhat pointless imo because all you are adding to the worms is veggie scraps which are high in N already. I do add a lot of weed meal and sometimes alfalfa meal.

How are you feeding the rock dusts? All at once, or broken down over a period of time?

 

[Gee64]

How are you feeding the rock dusts? All at once, or broken down over a period of time?

I mix them all together, greensand incuded, and then every tray gets a quarter cup of the mix sprinkled in in 2 layers. One layer is just above the bottom of the tray, and one layer is just under the top of the tray.

 

[SmokingWings]

For the past year I have been giving a lot of thought to my basic potting soil mixes and getting away from the chore of putting together some sort of 'super-soil' that often seems to need adjustment anyway.

The base soil that has been used for one or more grows is still good and the only thing I figure has to be replaced is the semi-decomposed organic material. That changes the aeration ratio so some Perlite goes in.

And, what about the Peat Moss or Coco Coir which will keep the tilth acceptable along with helping water retention. Will the added organic material be enough to take care of that consideration?

He’ll list a specific amount in one recipe then turn around and say 1 part perlite to 4 part soil. Then he’ll turn around and tell you to run it at 20% to start and 10% after that.

Same difference as my wife would say. 1 part Perlite and 4 parts soil is 5 parts total. So, the 1 part Perlite is 20% of the total.

 

[StoneOtter]

He does say "As you recycle your soil, the perlite also recycles so less and less is added during recycling over time. " P. 73.

We really do need to take a clue card! Thanks for that note! My soil hasn't had one iota of it added in all the amends! It wasn't called for. I'm getting a good feeling about adding some this grow!

 

[013]

Keff, on that perlite for rebuilding your soil mix

imho pumice is better. Its tougher- doesn’t break down into dust so it seems to last longer. Pumice is porous AF but most of it doesn’t readily float so you can easily presoak with mycos water before you mix a batch of soil. Metric crap tons of nooks and crannies in there

still have some chunky perlite left to recycle but I’ll only buy pumice from now on. Also rice hulls, my local grow shop gets 50 pound bales for under 50 bucks, but in my experience bulk rice hulls often come built in with soil mites. Good news is they work your soil but don’t attack the plant.

So jealous of you worm farmers, not yet but one day hopefully!! I’d be interested to try small amounts of rosemary and clove as worm food for potential of pest deterrence capabilities. Wonder if Azi or anyone has tried this?

 

[Krissi Carbone]

Hiya Keff! Gonna just gonna jump onto the train in this car and follow along if you don't mind!

 

[Keffka]

For the past year I have been giving a lot of thought to my basic potting soil mixes and getting away from the chore of putting together some sort of 'super-soil' that often seems to need adjustment anyway.

This is part of the reason I’m moving toward vermicomposting. Let the worms do all the work themselves then it just becomes a matter of cutting the castings in. I won’t have to do mixing and cooking for months, won’t have to deal with trim, bad plants wont be as hard of a hit, ratios aren’t the same concern as composting, etc. It’s basically an easy button for growing.

And, what about the Peat Moss or Coco Coir which will keep the tilth acceptable along with helping water retention. Will the added organic material be enough to take care of that consideration?

So Rev recommends against peat moss. However coots uses fresh peat moss every grow. I think there’s a balance that can be struck in there somewhere. Tilth and water retention both can be handled fairly well with good amendments in your castings . I don’t think we can just write it off though. I think that’s going to require little bits of fine tuning for each environment. Hot and dry under LED is going to decompose faster than outdoors in Michigan so I think a lot of it leans on your specifics.

Same difference as my wife would say. 1 part Perlite and 4 parts soil is 5 parts total. So, the 1 part Perlite is 20% of the total.

In my mind, 1 part perlite TO 4 parts soil is 25%, whereas 1 part perlite AND 4 parts soil is 5 parts total for 20%. I’ve always disliked the “parts” system though lol, there’s room for interpretation and I don’t like that in my measurements lol.

However, like I was saying about perlite, the differences aren’t a lot, just varied, and it’s more about what is applicable for your situation.

 

[Keffka]

I mix them all together, greensand incuded, and then every tray gets a quarter cup of the mix sprinkled in in 2 layers. One layer is just above the bottom of the tray, and one layer is just under the top of the tray.

How much do you fill up each tray? The starting coco brick and instructions they gave me will have the entire tray almost full, I’d say 80-90% of it

 

[Keffka]

We really do need to take a clue card! Thanks for that note! My soil hasn't had one iota of it added in all the amends! It wasn't called for. I'm getting a good feeling about adding some this grow!

What’s interesting about the quote @Azimuth found on pg 73 is, if you go to page 84 Rev goes back to talking about adding it every recycle at 10%. I think stuff like this is why in the beginning he recommends reading the whole book before taking any action. He sprinkles little bits of information throughout the whole book almost forcing you to read it all lol.

 

[Keffka]

Keff, on that perlite for rebuilding your soil mix

imho pumice is better. Its tougher- doesn’t break down into dust so it seems to last longer. Pumice is porous AF but most of it doesn’t readily float so you can easily presoak with mycos water before you mix a batch of soil. Metric crap tons of nooks and crannies in there

still have some chunky perlite left to recycle but I’ll only buy pumice from now on. Also rice hulls, my local grow shop gets 50 pound bales for under 50 bucks, but in my experience bulk rice hulls often come built in with soil mites. Good news is they work your soil but don’t attack the plant.

So jealous of you worm farmers, not yet but one day hopefully!! I’d be interested to try small amounts of rosemary and clove as worm food for potential of pest deterrence capabilities. Wonder if Azi or anyone has tried this?

I’ve heard a lot of good about pumice. One thing that jumped out was that bacteria favor it and a lot of fungus does not. This is actually pretty cool as it allows you to maintain a bacterial dominant soil with relative ease.

I’ve got my eye out for it. With spring coming everyone should be getting shipments in of a variety of stuff

 

[Keffka]

Hiya Keff! Gonna just gonna jump onto the train in this car and follow along if you don't mind!

You’re always welcome whenever Krissi! Nice to see you back around, I can’t imagine how many notifications you’re dealing with lol

 

[Krissi Carbone]

You’re always welcome whenever Krissi! Nice to see you back around, I can’t imagine how many notifications you’re dealing with lol

Thanks bud, I appreciate that!!! I'm all over the place today lol trying to just get my feet wet wherever I can-so many pools to be jumping in and out of, hoping I don't get swimmer's ear but in all honesty, I love this thread for things like the last few posts here, all the science behind it all.