SIP Club - Getting Hydro/Coco Results In A Soil Based Medium

[GratefulBud]

I've been following these SIP grows with interest while thinking about how I can modify for an outdoor grow. I came across this video today and thought of you guys. This would work great for a clandestine outdoor grow. Very little effort required to keep plants hydrated.

 

[Gidorah]

Pretty clever, thanks for sharing. Come on over to the SIPS club, plenty of room on this bus. Happy Thanksgiving and a great big thank you to everybody for sharing thier knowledge.

 

[Buds Buddy]

I've been following these SIP grows with interest while thinking about how I can modify for an outdoor grow. I came across this video today and thought of you guys. This would work great for a clandestine outdoor grow. Very little effort required to keep plants hydrated.

Those are the same as Auto Pots. They have a float to keep the water in the pans at a certain level that is provided from a reservoir.

 

[Azimuth]

Those are the same as Auto Pots. They have a float to keep the water in the pans at a certain level that is provided from a reservoir.

Also, I don't think they have an air gap. So, maybe effective but different from SIP.

 

[GratefulBud]

Also, I don't think they have an air gap. So, maybe effective but different from SIP.

Could you modify a SIP container and attach a float valve to control water?

 

[Buds Buddy]

Also, I don't think they have an air gap. So, maybe effective but different from SIP.

You can create an Air Gap with Clay pebbles in the bottom of the pot or possibly adjust the float so the water only goes so high & leaves the Air Gap. I think either way would work.

 

[Buds Buddy]

Could you modify a SIP container and attach a float valve to control water?

I was thinking about trying to do the same thing. I was thinking of using one of the 25 gal. Blue Plastic barrels for a res to supply my 5 gal. bucket reservoirs. Haven't quite figured it out yet though. I believe @ReservoirDog was doing something like this too.

 

[Azimuth]

Could you modify a SIP container and attach a float valve to control water?

Yes. @ReservoirDog has that going for his mother plants.

 

[Carmen Ray]

*** DIY SIP Designs ***

For those interested in building their own SIP to experiment with I thought I'd offer some simple design options. Keep in mind there are several different ways to build these things and I've tried a few and they all seem to produce about the same end result: great plants.

There are a few simple design principles that all of the various designs share, and essentially those are soil above, a water reservoir below and an air gap in between, and typically a fill tube to allow you to by-pass the soil to fill the reservoir. How those things are accomplished is up to the builder. I make the air gap/water reservoir by establishing a void in the bottom of the container that soil is packed densely around which forms the wicking mechanism to kept the rest of the soil in the pot constantly moist, but on a bit of a gradient, wetter at the bottom, less so as you move up the pot. This is similar to what is found in nature since water drops in the soil due to gravity so there is usually more water the deeper you go.

I've built them in various sizes ranging from Solo Cups, to 1L take-out containers, to 2 and 5 Gallon (8 and 20L) buckets and up to 17 gallon (65L) tubs. Here's how I do them:


Solo Cups
This version is a bit of a compromise since creating the void is hard to do with such a small container so it's built a bit differently than the others.

For this size I make a small hole with a soldering iron or drill bit about 1 inch/25mm up the side from the bottom of the cup.

Then I put either small hydroton clay balls or perlite/pumice in the bottom up to a level about 1.75"/45mm and then top with soil. Since the hydroton/perlite layer is higher than the overflow hole, there is a bit of an air gap satisfying the design requirement. There is not as much air as in the other design options, but as I said, this one is a bit of a compromise.

Given the lack of real estate to work with I don't even bother with a fill tube, but rather water by sitting the solo cup in a slightly larger tub of water to fill the reservoir from below through the overflow hole. I usually put a second hole slightly above the overflow hole which seems to assist with filling the reservoir more quickly by allowing a vent for the air being displaced by the increasing water level.

That's it. If you use clear cups you'll be able to see the roots develop but be sure to slide it into an opaque cover cup since the roots won't develop as well if exposed to light.


1L Take-out Container
This is probably the smallest size I would take to flower but is large enough for a respectable harvest (relatively speaking).

For this one you'll need two containers. The first is the 1L container and the second is some sort of small food grade plastice cup/container where the diameter of the rim is slightly smaller than the bottom of the 1L container. I use small single serving applesause containers that fit perfectly. This will make the reservoir void by making a bunch of small holes in it and placing it upside down in the bottom of the 1L container.

I make an overflow hole in the 1L container about 1 inch/25mm up from the bottom but make sure it is at least 1/2"/12mm below the height of the cup that makes up the void to ensure I have an air gap. Up to double that amount is preferable.

Then I make a bunch of small holes in the smaller container (I use a soldering iron) and place it upside down in the 1L container. Put your soil mix in so that it surrounds the inner cup but try to leave a void between it and the overflow hole to help with air flow. I've built this size both with and without a fill tube so that's a preference decision.

Be sure to pack the soil around the inner cup firmly to help with the wicking process, but fill the rest of the container with soil firmed like you would for a normal pot.


2 Gallon/8L or 5 Gallon/20L Buckets
Same basic design as the 1L version, just larger containers. I get my buckets from Lowes in the States because they are a deep, dark blue which helps shade the roots from light better than lighter or white colored ones.

For the container that creates the void I've used food grade plastic food containers like salad bowls or food storage containers as well as pasta strainers. Same rules here, try to find a container where the upper rim is slightly smaller than the lower width of your bucket.

I do use fill tubes for these so first I make a larger hole in the bottom of the inner container (which will be on top when we flip it to install it) that is slightly larger than my fill tube. I use the white PVC plumbing pipe (1/2"/12mm) and make my hole with a 7/8"/22mm hole saw which is the outer diameter of the pipe.

I actually make two holes, one each on opposite sides of this inner container. Then I use two fill tubes with the idea that there will be a better chance at air flow with this set-up than there would be with a single entry to a cave-like void you'd get with a single fill tube. No science to back this, I just feel like it is a better design.

I also like to have my fill tube stop just after entering the void to ensure air flow even when the reservoir is full so I cut off a small stub piece from the fill tube and attach it back with a coupler which holds it up when installed since the coupler is a larger diameter than the pipe and won't fit through my hole. ResDog has his fill tubes bottom out in the reservoir but makes holes all along its length to accomplish the same thing.

Then I make my overflow hole in the outer bucket making sure it is at leat 1"/25mm below the top of my void container for the air gap, and then make a bunch of small holes in the inner container to try to maximize air and water flow from this inner cup into the surrounding soil. I also make holes on the bottom (what will be the top) of the inner cup to get air to the roots once planted.

Then fill the pot with your soil mix and be sure to pack the soil around the inner cup firmly to help with the wicking process, but fill the rest of the container with soil firmed like you would for a normal pot.

I use a funnel I cut from the top of a water bottle to make pouring water into the fill tube a bit easier. I use a plumbing fitting (called a bushing) to attach a 1" coupling to the 1/2"pipe and the neck of the bottle slides into it nicely. I'm right handed so I like to position the fill tube just to the right of my overflow hole. This makes it easier to watch for run-off as I'm filling the reservoir than it would if it were on the oppositie side of the bucket.


17G/20L Plastic Tub
This design is a bit different from the buckets. The tubs I used for my outdoor vegetable garden are rectangular and I use perforated landscaping drainage pipe layed flat to make the reservoir/air gap. I used 3 sections of 4"/100mm pipe that fit perfectly laid side-by-side but 2 sections of 6"/150mm pipe would work just as well and give you a larger reservoir.

I capped the pipes off with the cover that came with my 1L containers to keep soil out of the pipes. I cut the cover slightly so it would snap between the ribs of the drainage pipe. Then I made my overflow hole about 1"/25mm below the top of the pipe.

Next I installed a 1"/25mm fill tube by cutting a hole in one of the pipe sections and then filled around the pipes with my soil mix being sure to pack it well around the pipes to ensure good wicking. The rest of the tub was filled with my mix firmed like I normally do.

-Or- If using cloth pots, you can simply lay them on the soil that covers the pipes. I'd probably put a good inch or two of soil over the pipes to account for any settling, although there shouldn't be much of that if you've packed it well.


*******

So, that's about it. pretty simple but very effective.

ResDog and Emilya use a slightly different design for their tubs and hopefully they'll post their versions to show some options for those wanting to build their own.

And finally, here's another design option which is a video posted originally by @GreenFingaz which shows a common version found on YouTube:

Thank you for the detailed explanation. The video was very helpful too. I looked online hoping to find self watering pots but could only find tiny ones locally. I need to find someone to DIY this system for me because this skill set is sadly lacking from my repertoire. I'm still not seeing in my mind's eye how fabric pots can be worked into a self watering system. Would I place the fabric pot on an upturned pasta drainer inside a bucket that is big enough to hold it, then cut a hole to hold the soil filled cup in place, or do I have the instructions muddled? I don't have to use the fabric pots. I can buy plastic pots if I have to but I'd really rather not Please forgive my muddle. I have recently started reading journals of growers who are doing SIP and my memory of who is doing what is confused.

 

[Azimuth]

Thank you for the detailed explanation. The video was very helpful too. I looked online hoping to find self watering pots but could only find tiny ones locally. I need to find someone to DIY this system for me because this skill set is sadly lacking from my repertoire. I'm still not seeing in my mind's eye how fabric pots can be worked into a self watering system. Would I place the fabric pot on an upturned pasta drainer inside a bucket that is big enough to hold it, then cut a hole to hold the soil filled cup in place, or do I have the instructions muddled? I don't have to use the fabric pots. I can buy plastic pots if I have to but I'd really rather not Please forgive my muddle. I have recently started reading journals of growers who are doing SIP and my memory of who is doing what is confused.

Hi Carmen,

You can totally use your fabric pots.

1. Find a container for the lower piece that is wider than your cloth pots and that will hold water.

2. Find a food grade container that is slightly smaller than the container in step 1. Make a bunch of small holes in this piece small enough to keep most of your grow mix out but that will let water pass freely. I found a pasta strainer at the local dollar store that fit the bottom of my bucket perfectly and already had the holes in it (because, pasta strainer). Turn it upside down so it is a dome and note the height of this piece on the inside of the step 1 piece. Also note the volume of this container as that will approximate the maximum amount of water you can add at any one time.

3. Make a small drainage hole in piece 1 that is about an inch below the top of piece 2. The space between the hole and the top of piece 2 defines your air gap.

4. Find a short piece of narrow pipe or a garden hose or something and make a hole near the top of piece 2 large enough to push the pipe through. This is your fill tube.

5. Fill piece 1 with your grow mix around and above your dome (piece 2) covering the dome by an inch or two of grow mix. This can be pretty bland soil as it only has to wick water. There will not be a plant in it.

6. Fill your 2 G fabric pot with your grow mix and pot up your plant and put the bag on top of the soil in the lower container.

7. Pour water through the fill tube into the lower container. If using a garden hose, a funnel will help a lot. The volume of water is determined by the size of the dome. The water will seep out of the dome into the surrounding soil and get wicked up to the top of the soil in the lower container. Since the cloth pot is sitting directly on the moist soil, it too will absorb water providing your plant the moisture it needs.

This is not my preferred set-up, but Emilya and Reservoir Dog have proven it works quite well. I prefer everything in one bucket so the roots can grown down and around the dome and have direct access to the water. So, you have two options. Try the one you find easier to build on one of your famous chard plants and see how well it works.

 

[Big Sparks]

A very nice n' detailed description Azi. Thank you so much for your time and efforts.

 

[Azimuth]

Cheers, @Big Sparks . Just sharing the love. These containers have been such a game changer for me and many others I want to spread the word and make them accessible to anyone who wants to try them.

 

[Will11]

I had another node split. This time on the top node. Something interesting I noticed….. I was afraid of more splits so I loosened all my training wires…..very loose. This auto seems to be growing so fast that overnight it grew back up into the wire and started to put enough pressure on itself that it started to split. The amount this plant has grow over the last few days is crazy. All my branches are pretty thick too so that makes them less pliable. I’m sure this one will heal as well, but I’m worried all this stress will limit yield. At this point, I have an auto that is three weeks old tomorrow and essentially is topped but I feel unable to train it anymore without hurting it. Can autos still have a decent yield if they are topped without training? Be sides the node splits the plant is super happy in it’s SIP.

 

[StoneOtter]

I had another node split. This time on the top node. Something interesting I noticed….. I was afraid of more splits so I loosened all my training wires…..very loose. This auto seems to be growing so fast that overnight it grew back up into the wire and started to put enough pressure on itself that it started to split. The amount this plant has grow over the last few days is crazy. All my branches are pretty thick too so that makes them less pliable. I’m sure this one will heal as well, but I’m worried all this stress will limit yield. At this point, I have an auto that is three weeks old tomorrow and essentially is topped but I feel unable to train it anymore without hurting it. Can autos still have a decent yield if they are topped without training? Be sides the node splits the plant is super happy in it’s SIP.

It's growing so fast it's bursting at the seams!

 

[Azimuth]

@Will11 , both @Emilya Green and I have noted in earlier posts the much thicker and stronger branches when growing in SIPs which, for me at least, required a change in how I accomplish the training. With any training, and perhaps even more so in our pots, the bending of the branches should be done gradually, and in stages over several days to give the branches a chance to settle in to their new realities.

So, move it in the intended direction but not all the way and restrain it. Next day move it a little more. It's best to start early when the branch is more flexible since as you've noticed it strengthens itself quite quickly.

Just another nuance when growing SIP. Once the branches get thick they are more difficult to pull in a direction that is different from their intended path. Topping the plant allows for more main branches and spreads the growth and then ultimately flower hormones around so you get a higher percentage of 'main' colas rather than one big one and a bunch of much smaller ones.

But you can for sure stop with the training if you feel it is generating more issues than it's worth. Then observe the plant and how it grows and incorporate lessons learned next round.

 

[Carmen Ray]

Hi Carmen,

You can totally use your fabric pots.

1. Find a container for the lower piece that is wider than your cloth pots and that will hold water.

2. Find a food grade container that is slightly smaller than the container in step 1. Make a bunch of small holes in this piece small enough to keep most of your grow mix out but that will let water pass freely. I found a pasta strainer at the local dollar store that fit the bottom of my bucket perfectly and already had the holes in it (because, pasta strainer). Turn it upside down so it is a dome and note the height of this piece on the inside of the step 1 piece. Also note the volume of this container as that will approximate the maximum amount of water you can add at any one time.

3. Make a small drainage hole in piece 1 that is about an inch below the top of piece 2. The space between the hole and the top of piece 2 defines your air gap.

4. Find a short piece of narrow pipe or a garden hose or something and make a hole near the top of piece 2 large enough to push the pipe through. This is your fill tube.

5. Fill piece 1 with your grow mix around and above your dome (piece 2) covering the dome by an inch or two of grow mix. This can be pretty bland soil as it only has to wick water. There will not be a plant in it.

6. Fill your 2 G fabric pot with your grow mix and pot up your plant and put the bag on top of the soil in the lower container.

7. Pour water through the fill tube into the lower container. If using a garden hose, a funnel will help a lot. The volume of water is determined by the size of the dome. The water will seep out of the dome into the surrounding soil and get wicked up to the top of the soil in the lower container. Since the cloth pot is sitting directly on the moist soil, it too will absorb water providing your plant the moisture it needs.

This is not my preferred set-up, but Emilya and Reservoir Dog have proven it works quite well. I prefer everything in one bucket so the roots can grown down and around the dome and have direct access to the water. So, you have two options. Try the one you find easier to build on one of your famous chard plants and see how well it works.

This is amazing Azi, thank you so much! It is a much clearer picture in my mind, and you're right I can try it on the chard to learn how. This was supposed to post ages ago and I have more questions.

 

[Carmen Ray]

I've been scratching my head as to what I can use as the component parts of a SIP setup that can work with my 20 liter fabric pots, on my dining room table grow space.
Would it work to upturn the pasta drainer in one of these 25 liter bokashi bins, given the relative sizes of grow bag to ave. sized pasta drainer and bucket? Is the tap on the bokashi bin conveniently situated or is it too low in relation to the level I'd need the water to be inside the reservoir? If the tap is too low, could a 25 liter black bucket work with a drainage pipe inserted higher up?
If yes to either, could the inlet hose run down the inside of the black bucket between the wall of the bucket and the wall of the grow bag for manually filling the reservoir?

 

[Azimuth]

Would it work to upturn the pasta drainer in one of these 25 liter bokashi bins, given the relative sizes of grow bag to ave. sized pasta drainer and bucket?

A bucket like that would work but the reservoir container doesn't need to be that tall, just high enough for the reservoir height plus air gap plus an inch or two of topping medium. That's why I was suggesting a dishwashing pan. I test fitted that setup and a 5G bucket fit perfectly so I imagine a cloth pot would work at least as well.

One of the advantages of the cloth pots is that you get air flow all around the pot and I would imagine that putting it down into a plastic bucket would defeat some of that advantage.

Plus, if you're going to buy a plastic bucket anyway, you could just build the SIP in the bucket itself which is my preferred way. Just be sure the upside down plastic strainer fits in the bottom of the bucket. Then you just need a regular pot saucer under the bucket and you're good to go. That's the way I have mine.

Is the tap on the bokashi bin conveniently situated or is it too low in relation to the level I'd need the water to be inside the reservoir? If the tap is too low, could a 25 liter black bucket work with a drainage pipe inserted higher up?

The installed tap is too low as you wouldn't have much of a reservoir. The 25 liter bucket would work with the overflow hole drilled based on the height of your dome.

If yes to either, could the inlet hose run down the inside of the black bucket between the wall of the bucket and the wall of the grow bag for manually filling the reservoir?

Yes, but it should dead end into the reservoir space and not just beside it if you fill the bucket to the bottom with soil. In my earlier designs I instead filled the area between the dome and the side of the bucket with hydroton clay balls in which case you could just run the pipe straight down. River Rock or probably even large size perlite would work just as well as the clay balls I'd imagine.

Edit: I should add that I do a hybrid in my buckets. I put hydroton clay balls in an area local to the overflow hole and between it and the dome, and then my grow mix for the rest all the way down to the bottom of the bucket. That way I have the best of both worlds; a looser, more open structure of the clay balls to help excess water flow out while still holding off the soil from this area, but also soil in the rest of the base with its related microbes to help process the organic nutrients and seemless wicking from a single homogeneous mix.

 

[Timhomegrow]

What about SIPs and fungus gnats?

I've struggled with gnats in all my grows. However, I didn't have much of an issue this last grow until I used my auto water system when gone for 5 days and had an explosion of gnats like I had never seen before.

I assumed the explosion was caused by remaining standing water in my pvc irrigation line. In subsequent usages I treated the reservoir water with mosquito dunks and upon returning from a trip would vacuum out all water from the irrigation lines and it seemed to really mitigate the issue.

Do you see issues with SIPs and fungus gnats? It seems that these buckets have easy access to water for these pests to flourish.

 

[Azimuth]

What about SIPs and fungus gnats?

I've struggled with gnats in all my grows. However, I didn't have much of an issue this last grow until I used my auto water system when gone for 5 days and had an explosion of gnats like I had never seen before.

I assumed the explosion was caused by remaining standing water in my pvc irrigation line. In subsequent usages I treated the reservoir water with mosquito dunks and upon returning from a trip would vacuum out all water from the irrigation lines and it seemed to really mitigate the issue.

Do you see issues with SIPs and fungus gnats? It seems that these buckets have easy access to water for these pests to flourish.

I haven't had any issues. The plants drain the water daily and the top couple of inches stay dry so maybe that helps?

Happy to say I know nothing from fungus gnats.