Weasel Forges Ahead

[Joe Brewster]

Because I am trying to change the medium from Promix to LOS. I do not have many pots larger than 10 gallons. I don’t want them to be sitting in five or 7 gallons of nutritionally empty peat mix with only a tiny bit of LOS around the outside. I want them to be in mainly LOS.

Do you plan on moving them larger than 10 gallon pots around much?
If not, why not just plant in ground , in well draining area & add your LOS mix
If you are going to be away, that would be best, let Mother nature take care of them

The mix clearly wasn’t ready yet but I had hoped she would straighten out over time.

Compost that is still breaking down, robs nitrogen from the mix

 

[Weaselcracker]

They’re in flowering. And mother nature isn’t all that inclined to be helpful taking care of outdoor cannabis where I live. But yes I will do that for my veg plants.

I’m mainly leaning towards getting them all into the LOS mix at this point, ready or not. And setting up a watering system. Hate to do it, but it’s gotten me by in the past, if only barely.

nitrogen

Do you think that’s nitrogen deficiency? I didn’t think so. I don’t want to just contradict you at every turn here though mate ha ha. You could be right. To me it looked different -isolated patches of very bright yellow/white colouring. The affected areas are dry and brittle- crumble into dust in the worst affected spots. Anyway- I suppose it doesn’t matter what it is - doesn’t really affect what I do to solve it which is basically to wait.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Transplanted most of my flowering plants into the LOS now.


The is the Durple Pream I put into the LOS mix a month ago. The reason I thought it’s not a simple nitrogen deficiency is the way the yellow/white patches are localized on the leaves while other areas are a dark green colour.

Durple Pream LOS

• Weaselcracker
• May 7, 2021

Durple Pream LOS

• Weaselcracker
• May 7, 2021

But yeah... it doesn’t really matter either way since I don’t see all that much I can do about it. I suppose if it was basic nitrogen deficiency I could attempt feeding the plants some soluble nutrients in the short term, but as it is, I’m inclined to not mess with the system.


The left side.

Left side

• Weaselcracker
• May 7, 2021

Plants are showing yellowing tips three days after the transplant into LOS. I suspect it’s a version of the same yellowing problem as before, though hopefully not.


Can’t remember which plant this is- one of the Blue Dreams maybe.

A0D586E4-BE7F-463A-A1BD-48AD5DE38AD1.jpeg

• Weaselcracker
• May 7, 2021

Hopefully the yellowing isn’t quite as bad this time but at this point they’re going to do what they do.



The days of this journal are numbered in the short term, but hopefully before I leave to sail off to La La Land I will have a better idea what direction the plants are heading in, if not a better idea of what to do about It. Anyway, I think I will be happy enough if the plants just don’t die while I’m away, and I can preserve the genetics by taking clones in the future of whatever wreckage I come back to. Anything else beyond that is a bonus.

 

[Rider509]

That’s the most unusual presentation of a problem I’ve ever seen. What the hell would cause the flipping middle of the leaf to die out like that!? Uh oh, I see a rabbit hole that needs to be explored...

 

[Weaselcracker]

It’s weird hey? I could see if it was only the areas closest to the light, but it’s more random than that.

I can’t think of what would make one part of the leaf disintegrate while the rest of it looks fine, but what do I know...
Anyway since the microbes are supposedly in control at this point- not sure what I can do about it- yell at them? I’m guessing they’re sorta like people only smaller. Like- they probably won’t listen.

 

[Rider509]

I spoke to She-Ra, Princess of Flower, and showed her your plant. She said it is def not a nute or pH problem. She said it is most def environmental. She diagnosed it as light-burn, and speculated that there was water on the leaves that caused the issue. She wondered if it was hit by sprinklers or if you did a foliar application.

She also recommended that you pinch off the flowers and reveg it until it gets healthier. She said if it was her, she would take off all of the compromised leaves so she could assess the new growth more easily, even though it would set back flowering by a month or so.

 

[Rider509]

No thoughts on this?

 

[Weaselcracker]

Yes! Just a bit frantic running around here right now. I keep reassessing. I wrote out a whole bunch of thoughts earlier. Too many thoughts. And then I deleted them all and wrote out a bunch more thoughts. Then I went and worked on the plants for a couple hours and came back and deleted everything again.

Basically I think it is a nutritional problem of sorts relating to the LOS mix which is not ready yet. Or at least it was not ready yet four weeks ago when I put those two plants in it which are showing the worst issues. The princess may be right in that it might partly relate to the light burning the leaves. However as you may be able to see from the pics it shows up all over the place from top to bottom so I wouldn’t call it a simple light burn.

As for the yellowing on all the new growth that I posted last time, that seems more like an iron deficiency type thing. It appears most in the areas closest to the light but is not actually a burn. I’m hoping it will behave like iron deficiency sometimes does, and go away again

I know it is related to nutrition and the LOS mix because I’ve had nine large plants under the same lights at the same distance this whole time, and they were all perfectly healthy other than the one in the immature LOS mix. (The other early LOS one is in veg)


Now I have transplanted all the remainder into LOS. Some are showing some tip yellowing and have gotten worse since yesterday. Others showed a bit but have gotten better since yesterday and now look totally fine.


Basically I’m just gonna wait and see what happens. Various people have floated various ideas to me on experiments to try right now, but after seeing how they look tonight I’m feeling a bit more optimistic.


@The Celt ,who came up with this organic mix for me, likes to talk about microbial levels and how they affect the nutrient uptake of the plants. Personally I don’t know anything much about the organic processes. But my overall impression is that I should probably just ride it out. I’ll know within the next week or so whether they’re heading downhill badly, getting better, or hovering at fairly crappy. I’ve spent a lot of time ‘hovering at fairly crappy’ on this journal anyway. So if that’s the worst I come back to on my return home, I can handle it.

Thanks for asking around about it. I appreciate it. And give my regards to her Majesty.

 

[dynamo1]

No thoughts on this?

I thought it sounded like wise advise to me,

 

[Joe Brewster]

could be a ph issue , not sure what ammonium nitrogen gas does to a plant

Lastly, lime can be added to improve the alkalinity, but not until after the compost is finished! If you add it directly to the processing compost, it will release ammonium nitrogen gas. Instead, add lime to the soil after the compost has been added.

this is what they say about adjusting ph on that compost site I sent
guess you have to ride it out & hope the microbes do there thing

 

[Weaselcracker]

The pH seems fine - in the mid 6’s every time I’ve checked with a slurry. Also people keep telling me that for an organic soil mix I shouldn’t worry very much about the pH.

It makes perfect sense to me that the mix isn’t fully composted yet because it’s only two months old and in fairly cold weather for most of that time, so I don’t think I need to dig too deep to find the answers to the mystery. Judging by how the plants looked tonight I think it’s getting close though.
Fingers crossed.

 

[Joe Brewster]

They’re in flowering. And mother nature isn’t all that inclined to be helpful taking care of outdoor cannabis where I live. But yes I will do that for my veg plants.

I’m mainly leaning towards getting them all into the LOS mix at this point, ready or not. And setting up a watering system. Hate to do it, but it’s gotten me by in the past, if only barely.


Do you think that’s nitrogen deficiency? I didn’t think so. I don’t want to just contradict you at every turn here though mate ha ha. You could be right. To me it looked different -isolated patches of very bright yellow/white colouring. The affected areas are dry and brittle- crumble into dust in the worst affected spots. Anyway- I suppose it doesn’t matter what it is - doesn’t really affect what I do to solve it which is basically to wait.

found this on ammoniacal toxicity​

Nitrogen’s Influence on Growing Medium pH​

Tuesday, January 19, 2021 | JoAnn Peery

The pH of a growing medium is influenced by several different factors, two of which have been addressed in previous articles: the alkalinity of the irrigation water, as well as the amount and form of limestone incorporated into the growing medium. This article will focus on the third major factor: nitrogen.

In standard greenhouse fertilizers, nitrogen is supplied as ammonium (NH4+), nitrate (NO3-) or urea. Each of these three nitrogen sources, when taken up by plant roots, produce different chemical reactions with differing effects on the growing medium pH. This article will briefly describe those effects on growing medium pH.

This is a typical analysis of the elements found in a fertilizer. Notice the top three lines indicate the total and nitrogen and the breakdown of ammoniacal and nitrate nitrogen. Source: Premier Tech Horticulture

Ammoniacal Nitrogen (Ammonium)​

When ammoniacal nitrogen (NH4+) is taken up by the plant, it is converted to ammonia (NH3) within the root. This process results in the release of a positively charged H+ cation from the plant root. The H+ cation then reacts with the growing medium causing a reduction in its pH. The higher the concentration of ammoniacal nitrogen in the fertilizer, the greater the impact it has on lowering the growing medium pH.

Ammoniacal nitrogen can also become available to the plant through a process called nitrification. In this process, microbes in the growing medium breakdown ammoniacal nitrogen, thus releasing the H+ and resulting in a reduced growing medium pH. This process occurs most efficiently when the growing medium temperature is above 50°F (10°C) and the microbes are most active. Since nitrification needs warmth for the microbes to actively break down the ammoniacal nitrogen, it is generally not recommended as the primary nitrogen source during cool winter months. It should also be pointed out that plants grown with high levels of ammoniacal nitrogen, especially when growing medium temperatures are cold, can show ammonia toxicity, causing chlorosis and necrotic spotting of older leaves.

Mum on left has ammonium toxicity symptoms, while the one on the right is normal. Notice the chlorosis and brown flecking near leaf margins. Source: Premier Tech

Nitrate Nitrogen​

Nitrate nitrogen works differently by causing the release a negatively charged OH- or HCO3- anion when it is taken up by the plant root. These negatively charged anions are bases and when they react with the growing medium, they cause the growing medium pH to increase. If the fertilizer used has a high concentration of nitrate nitrogen, then it will have a greater influence on increasing the pH of the growing medium.

Urea​

Urea nitrogen ((NH2)2CO), the third nitrogen source, is often broken down by microbes in the growing medium to form NH4+ (ammonium) and CO2- (carbon dioxide). As stated above, when a plant roots takes up ammoniacal nitrogen, it emits H+ into the growing medium, thereby reducing the pH of the growing medium. However there is significant evidence that shows plants roots take up some urea, which has no electrical charge. Therefore, urea is considered neutral and therefore does not have an impact on growing media pH.

Plants often can only take up nitrogen in the form of ammonium or nitrate. Organic fertilizers must be broken down to one of these two forms by microbial activity in the growing medium before being taken up by the plant root. Therefore the effect of organic fertilizers on growing medium pH will depend on how the organic component of the fertilizer is broken down.However, most organic fertilizers break down to the ammoniacal form of nitrogen and therefore will cause a drop in growing medium pH.

Other than nitrification, the impact of nitrogen form on growing medium pH only occurs when the plants take up the nitrogen. If plants are very small or not growing, the plant uses little fertilizer and therefore the growing medium pH will not be affected by the addition of fertilizer.

Understanding the function of nitrogen form on growing medium pH is an additional tool in a grower’s arsenal for optimizing nutrient availability. Combined with knowledge of the alkalinity of the irrigation water, a grower can choose the fertilizer formulation that will maximize plant growth. As a general rule of thumb, growing medium pH can be controlled through the choice of nitrogen form as long as the alkalinity of the irrigation water does not exceed 235 ppm CaCO3. Once it rises above 235 ppm CaCO3 the amount of acid needed to maintain a desirable growing medium pH can no longer be provided by fertilizer source alone and acid injection is recommended.

In order to maintain optimum growing medium pH and nutrient availability, growers should test the growing medium pH of various crops on a regular basis. By monitoring growing medium pH, slight modifications in fertilizer applications can be made before nutrient problems are manifested in plant growth.

 

[Rexer]

'Morning Weaselcracker!

Yes! Just a bit frantic running around here right now. I keep reassessing. I wrote out a whole bunch of thoughts earlier. Too many thoughts. And then I deleted them all and wrote out a bunch more thoughts. Then I went and worked on the plants for a couple hours and came back and deleted everything again.

So....I'm not the only one who does that! The worst is when you finally get what you want to say written- then the topic has moved on, and it gets deleted again.

Basically I’m just gonna wait and see what happens. Various people have floated various ideas to me on experiments to try right now, but after seeing how they look tonight I’m feeling a bit more optimistic.

I think that's your best move. Have patience, the way the problem has presented itself, you can end up causing more harm (nothing you don't already know).

My first thought was light stress when seeing those leaves- looks like a good LED burn.

But the rest? Only thing I've come up with is something in the root, damage maybe? Cold temps?

Hope you have a good one brother.

 

[Spitz]

Definitely strange plant response. I’d bet you have a localized trouble spot in your pot. I’ve always wondered the relationship between what’s above ground vs below ground and what the impact/response to localized root problems would manifest above ground. For the most part, our mediums are always homogeneous. A under “cooked” or mixed LOS batch would definitely not be. Did you save a tub or 2 to cook all summer? Maybe give it a good run in the fall? I’m watching closely as this is something I want to try when I find the right plant. I’ve been piecing the components for Sub’s recipe piece by piece. Until then, I’ll keep pounding nutrient mixes through coco on my mad hunt.

I sure hope time heals and things work out for you!

 

[Weaselcracker]

I’ve got about 30-40 gallons of LOS mix left in the bin. I’ll try to start another batch in the late summer or fall.

Thanks for all the thoughts- I appreciate it. I’m considering everything. At least half of the plants continue to yellow. Others don’t, or barely show any issue at all.

Left side

• Weaselcracker
• May 10, 2021

Issues...

• Weaselcracker
• May 10, 2021

I don’t believe it is a light burn issue. My lights are mostly 18 inches away, other people here are running the same light at 9 or 10 inches away. None of them showed any issues before they were put in the LOS mix. Also the issues can show up lower down on the plant as well, while sometimes at the top bud is unaffected

My intuition, Celt’s input along with that of others, and a comment from Dankman on his journal about cooking times and temps- all lead me to believe that generally speaking I’m just dealing with an immature mix that’s still busy composting. Sound like excess microbial activity can cause issues. Hopefully it will settle down and the plants will pull through, but if not- so be it.

The way that events laid themselves out on the calendar this year- I don't see how I could have done differently even if I had a time machine. I’m just a twig floating downstream.

I would consider a foliar spray if I had a more clear idea of what they are lacking, just to see what happens, out of curiosity. But i’m not too worried. Without any clear fix for the problem I am happy enough to let the plants just try to work it out themselves if they can.

Been putting many long days into the grow the last couple months. Today I spent 10 hours repotting plants and got almost all my veg plants out of the growroom. I will also take a few plants with me on my trip to give away to someone who lives out in the bush there. I will shut veg down soon.

Planted some in the vegetable garden, rhubarb patch, lots in the greenhouse, some in various deer enclosures I have around fruit trees, and others just out in the bush here and there. I also had about 16 seedlings that I had previously started for outdoors, which I up-potted today. Plants everywhere! It’s a lot of work

lunch

• Weaselcracker
• May 10, 2021
• 1

I just want to have the genetics around. I can put some back indoors for flowering, or take clones of them later.

I’m setting up four 55 gallon drums of rainwater in flowering, which should be way more than than enough to last me through any trip I go on.

Flowering

• Weaselcracker
• May 10, 2021

Flowering

• Weaselcracker
• May 10, 2021

I just don’t wanna be away on a five week trip with only four weeks worth of water like I’ve done before. So that will be one less thing to worry about, out of the hundreds of things that could go wrong. Usually I manage to set the timer wrong somehow.

 

[Rexer]

Beautiful update my friend!

Wish you the best- I'm going out to try and get an outdoor veggie garden started today.
Rhubarb brings back some childhood memories

 

[copperrein]

Woo! Caught up! That weird vitiligo....the radial splotches look like maybe you've got some pockets of X nutrient in your soil maybe? Like she stuck her toe in pure hot poop or whatever and it showed in the corresponding vegetation above? Dunno, pissing in the dark so to speak.

Apologies for flaking out! I'm playing catchup. Aside from the vitiligo plant (which is still pretty in its own way) everything looks sweet.

The trees, tho <3 If/when you do relocate...take cuttings with you.

 

[Fudo Myoo]

I’ve got about 30-40 gallons of LOS mix left in the bin. I’ll try to start another batch in the late summer or fall.

Thanks for all the thoughts- I appreciate it. I’m considering everything. At least half of the plants continue to yellow. Others don’t, or barely show any issue at all.

Left side

• Weaselcracker
• May 10, 2021

Issues...

• Weaselcracker
• May 10, 2021

I don’t believe it is a light burn issue. My lights are mostly 18 inches away, other people here are running the same light at 9 or 10 inches away. None of them showed any issues before they were put in the LOS mix. Also the issues can show up lower down on the plant as well, while sometimes at the top bud is unaffected

My intuition, Celt’s input along with that of others, and a comment from Dankman on his journal about cooking times and temps- all lead me to believe that generally speaking I’m just dealing with an immature mix that’s still busy composting. Sound like excess microbial activity can cause issues. Hopefully it will settle down and the plants will pull through, but if not- so be it.

The way that events laid themselves out on the calendar this year- I don't see how I could have done differently even if I had a time machine. I’m just a twig floating downstream.

I would consider a foliar spray if I had a more clear idea of what they are lacking, just to see what happens, out of curiosity. But i’m not too worried. Without any clear fix for the problem I am happy enough to let the plants just try to work it out themselves if they can.

Been putting many long days into the grow the last couple months. Today I spent 10 hours repotting plants and got almost all my veg plants out of the growroom. I will also take a few plants with me on my trip to give away to someone who lives out in the bush there. I will shut veg down soon.

Planted some in the vegetable garden, rhubarb patch, lots in the greenhouse, some in various deer enclosures I have around fruit trees, and others just out in the bush here and there. I also had about 16 seedlings that I had previously started for outdoors, which I up-potted today. Plants everywhere! It’s a lot of work

lunch

• Weaselcracker
• May 10, 2021
• 1

I just want to have the genetics around. I can put some back indoors for flowering, or take clones of them later.

I’m setting up four 55 gallon drums of rainwater in flowering, which should be way more than than enough to last me through any trip I go on.

Flowering

• Weaselcracker
• May 10, 2021

Flowering

• Weaselcracker
• May 10, 2021

I just don’t wanna be away on a five week trip with only four weeks worth of water like I’ve done before. So that will be one less thing to worry about, out of the hundreds of things that could go wrong. Usually I manage to set the timer wrong somehow.

Awesome setup!

 

[Amy Gardner]

Hey WC - I’m thinking of you a lot lately, over there madly setting things up for your imminent escape!

And, just clarifying something in case what you say here is misleading to folks...

Also people keep telling me that for an organic soil mix I shouldn’t worry very much about the pH.

You definitely should as relates to the PH of the soil. The soil needs to be buffered to about 6.2-6.8 (I think), and then it will maintain. (Any good LOS recipe will likely arrive there once cooked).

in any buffered soil you don’t need to adjust the ph of your water.

Sending the best vibes for your success everyday.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Apologies for flaking out! I'm playing catchup.... the vitiligo plant

Nah never apologize for nothin nohow. We will never catch up.

I had to google vitiligo but now know something new- I always wondered what that skin thing was.

It is weird how patchy it is. But - basically it is what it is, is what it is. No plans to do anything about it so wtf.

Awesome setup!

Thanks!

madly setting things up for your imminent escape!

Exactly what I’ve been doing. It has been kind of really epic but part of what motivates me is wanting to know that I still can- escape if I have to. I have gathered a whole lot of moss in the last few years.

Rhubarb

Makes amazing wine.


So I’m heading out into Lalaland, or Lalawater in this case. Almost out of phone range now and will be for a month or more.



I set up all the plants in LOS with 220+ gallons of rainwater. Two barrels on each side connected by siphon. One 240 gph pump on each side -comes on once per day for one minute.

Flowering

• Weaselcracker
• May 23, 2021

Kali China

• Weaselcracker
• May 23, 2021

Zamaldelica

• Weaselcracker
• May 23, 2021

About half the buds have that vitiligo thing. It’s odd how sometimes the apical bud doesn’t have it and the lower growth does. Some plants are almost free of it- others have it pretty bad.
My girlfriend saw them and said - ‘wow they look extra beautiful right now!‘. So there’s that.
I’m totally happy with whatever happens with them. It’s a trial run. Mostly I just want to preserve the genetics and see if I really can go away for this long. Trial and error is the best way to really find out. If the LOS was working properly I think that would be almost enough water to get me through all of flowering. Wouldn’t that be fun- flip them and come back in a couple months for harvest.


I shut down veg and spread plants all over the place outdoors and in the greenhouse. The old greenhouse bunny did a wonderful job of lollipopping all those ones. The weed makes him happy and content-seems to ease his tooth pain.

Master lollipopper for hire

• Weaselcracker
• May 23, 2021

Worker burnout

• Weaselcracker
• May 23, 2021

Taking a few plants with me down yonder - they’re doing a amazingly good job of smelling up the bow. A big improvement on how that chaos up there smelled before.

Bud in the bow

• Weaselcracker
• May 23, 2021

Almost out of range here and getting into the ocean swell- better go tidy things up. Best wishes to all you folks. Hope we can all continue to find our strength and peace amidst the chaos: Someone has to do it- may as well be us!