Weffalo's West Coast O.G. First Time Grow: Indoor, Soil, SIP, Auto

[Weffalo]

What does your cool temp go to Weff?

Temps are 18-19c night time (4 hours as I'm 20:4) and 24-27c during lights on, I try to keep it low but no air con so average is probably 24c with spikes to 26-7.

Humidity is kept at 40 and upto 45% during lights off when it spikes.

@Bill284 I'm freaking a little about your ph comment. Do you suppose in my LOS that I'm using in the SIP I'm going to have to p freaking h my water? A lot really.

Is @Emilya Green ph'ing in her organic soil grows in SIP? I don't think so. ?

Oi Bill, I need @Azimuth and @Emilya Green for the science but I have to tell you what I believe I've read about that. These plants in SIP drink from the res and eat from the soil. They will be few roots in the rez in the end. Maybe that's the way I see it but I don't recall a need to ph for SIP in soil.
Not meant to be a ph or not to ph thing in general. Just the SIP in soil opinion

Interesting, I think the pH was just an idea and definitely may not be the issue here. If I don't ph at all my nute mix is still just and so within the range of 5.5-6.5 (I think it starts at about 6.4) but I do bring it down to 6.2 currently.

I do think it's a nutrient issue but I've no idea how to solve the problem lol.

I don't worry about pH in my organic grows because I know my microbes and my nutrients don't depend on ph to be active. If I were using synthetic nutes I would count on low to high drift because of the buffering built into the soil. I would think that just as there is a moisture gradient in the soil there would also be a pH gradient with the higher pH being seen in the drier upper regions of the container. I think I would start at 5.8 in the reservoir and feel comfortable that the roots will adjust to the various pH zones that are found as you go higher up in the container. As long as you're in a good soil with some buffering I don't think this would be a problem as long as you are consistent so that the roots can adapt to what they find.

Thanks for your thoughts Emilya that's very interesting. I'm using BioBizz light with 40% perlite and frass and Dynomyco... Idk if the soil is good it seemed to be fine all the way until last week when these problems started and have now snowballed rather badly

 

[Emilya Green]

Still no real idea what this problem is, I'm guessing it's probably a combination of defiencies and why it's maybe not as easy to identify but I don't know. I went with reducing potassium for the last few feeds and increasing calmag but it's very hard to tell any difference yet and I fear it's probably kinda hopeless anyway at this point, just praying they finish still.

I'm gonna start FinalPart (0-6-5) ripening agent in the next feed later tonight and just praying they finish and the bud is smokeable

Day 23 of flower (Day 60):

Looking further into this, I find myself with questions. I also want to note that you have shown me the first feeding schedule that I have ever seen that is specifically for Autos, and I find that very special. I have always said that no one makes one, so I stand corrected.

Please don't get mad when I ask you the following questions... I really am trying to help. We have seen a lot of new people have problems because some supposed expert has been advising them to do something special. I am trying to identify whether there is something fundamentally wrong here, so please bear with me.

I think I have noted that you are adjusting this feeding schedule based on assumptions as to what is going on. So I have to ask, are you following the suggested feeding schedule to the letter? Are you or have you been only feeding a portion of the suggested feed?

The reason I ask, is that your plants look hungry. I also note very clear signs that your plants are suffering from a potassium deficiency, yet you have reduced your potassium. Why? Especially here in the middle of bloom, I don't think this was the best move.

I will also comment that you seem to think you are near the end of this grow. Your buds appear to be at best, 5th week buds and I would estimate by looking at them that you still have at least 3-4 weeks left in this grow. It's an Auto, and it might move faster than that, but that is what I see right now. I'm also wondering if the feeding chart is telling you to start running the final part now, or if you have decided to do this on your own?

Please tell me how we have gotten here and then we can figure out how best to fix this. I think we are a long ways from calling it a loss.

 

[NickHardy]

Loads of good sense there Emilya. I was always about a month ahead of Weff and I just harvested on day 64. Per breeder, I waited 3 days too many. I’m photos, as you said sure Autos can run a bit fast but I think your timing is right at 5 weeks

If you reckon its Potassium deficiency I bow to your superior knowledge, wisdom and experience.

Recoverable I totally agree on.

 

[Bill284]

@Bill284 I'm freaking a little about your ph comment. Do you suppose in my LOS that I'm using in the SIP I'm going to have to p freaking h my water? A lot really.

Is @Emilya Green ph'ing in her organic soil grows in SIP? I don't think so. ?

Oi Bill, I need @Azimuth and @Emilya Green for the science but I have to tell you what I believe I've read about that. These plants in SIP drink from the res and eat from the soil. They will be few roots in the rez in the end. Maybe that's the way I see it but I don't recall a need to ph for SIP in soil.
Not meant to be a ph or not to ph thing in general. Just the SIP in soil opinion

Good morning Stone, hope everything is going well.
I'm not using SIP so I called in you experts.
I know it's a soil grow basically but I wasn't sure of the reservoir.
That was the part I had concerns about.
Never having used it I thought it better to get advice from people with experience.
Don't have any of these issues with the Bill284 Method, hehe.
Hopefully you can get her to eat.
She has a minor deficiency, that feed chart is a bit off IMO.
But I'm no expert in breaking down nutrients.
She needs her nutrition though, if she is going to make it another month.
Take care.




#Vivosun #Love What You Grow
Bill284

 

[Weffalo]

Looking further into this, I find myself with questions. I also want to note that you have shown me the first feeding schedule that I have ever seen that is specifically for Autos, and I find that very special. I have always said that no one makes one, so I stand corrected.

Please don't get mad when I ask you the following questions... I really am trying to help. We have seen a lot of new people have problems because some supposed expert has been advising them to do something special. I am trying to identify whether there is something fundamentally wrong here, so please bear with me.

I think I have noted that you are adjusting this feeding schedule based on assumptions as to what is going on. So I have to ask, are you following the suggested feeding schedule to the letter? Are you or have you been only feeding a portion of the suggested feed?

The reason I ask, is that your plants look hungry. I also note very clear signs that your plants are suffering from a potassium deficiency, yet you have reduced your potassium. Why? Especially here in the middle of bloom, I don't think this was the best move.

I will also comment that you seem to think you are near the end of this grow. Your buds appear to be at best, 5th week buds and I would estimate by looking at them that you still have at least 3-4 weeks left in this grow. It's an Auto, and it might move faster than that, but that is what I see right now. I'm also wondering if the feeding chart is telling you to start running the final part now, or if you have decided to do this on your own?

Please tell me how we have gotten here and then we can figure out how best to fix this. I think we are a long ways from calling it a loss.

Hey @Emilya Green, I very much appreciate you looking into my situation and no offence is taken from asking questions, I expect to make mistakes and I am here to learn as much as possible so thanks a lot for offering your assistance.

The defiency actions I have taken have been guesses based on pictures and posting here with my thoughts, unless definitively corrected by someone with more knowledge. I have just gone ahead with my guesses, which seem to be massively wrong

I am following the feed schedule to the letter apart from this last week and a half where I have basically been flailing around trying my best to improve things and of course, I am making them worse! Until I made random changes based on random guesses my latest feeds were:
.15ml/L Micro (5-0-1)
.25ml/L Gro (3-1-6)
.5ml/L Bloom (0-5-4)
0.1ml/L Pro Bloom
0.2g/L Silica
1ml/L CalMag (This calmag is 1.8-0-0 nitrate based)

All PH'd to 6.2, the res is emptied daily by the plants.

The last feed I gave had half the amount of bloom because I thought it was actually a magnesium issue and I read that it can be caused by excess potassium... lol

It's probably also worth noting I didn't adjust the feed schedule until I saw bad issues so I don't think the issues were caused by me playing around but the original feed I guess not having enough potassium for this strain at this moment?

As far as timelines go, it's my first grow, so I'm basing it purely on 10 weeks to completion as advised by the feed schedule and the seed people, but I'm in no rush to chop early or rush things. The questions around when it's due to finish are purely so I can establish when to use FinalPart/Ripen. Based on what both you and Bill have told me it's something I'm now waiting a few weeks before considering

The res is currently empty but I've not rushed to make another nutrient mix as I keep doing that and making it worse so I'll patiently wait for further advice before doing so

 

[Weffalo]

Loads of good sense there Emilya. I was always about a month ahead of Weff and I just harvested on day 64. Per breeder, I waited 3 days too many. I’m photos, as you said sure Autos can run a bit fast but I think your timing is right at 5 weeks

If you reckon its Potassium deficiency I bow to your superior knowledge, wisdom and experience.

Recoverable I totally agree on.

I really pray they are recoverable mate

Good morning Stone, hope everything is going well.
I'm not using SIP so I called in you experts.
I know it's a soil grow basically but I wasn't sure of the reservoir.
That was the part I had concerns about.
Never having used it I thought it better to get advice from people with experience.
Don't have any of these issues with the Bill284 Method, hehe.
Hopefully you can get her to eat.
She has a minor deficiency, that feed chart is a bit off IMO.
But I'm no expert in breaking down nutrients.
She needs her nutrition though, if she is going to make it another month.
Take care.




#Vivosun #Love What You Grow
Bill284

Thanks @Bill284 - I hope I can get her to eat as well mate, really hoping they pull through it's the worst to have issues right when the buds are getting fat and terpy Good lessons to learn though ofcourse.

 

[Emilya Green]

Stop changing things on your own and give exactly what the feed schedule calls for. Also be advised that the 10 weeks recommendation talks only about the bloom time... but you had 4-5 weeks of veg before that. Adjust your timeline accordingly. I am not convinced that you need to change anything from the feed schedule and now that you are going back to it, lets go a few feedings before changing anything else so we can establish a base line with your recommended nutes. Keep an eye on her and report back any further changes, but I don't think you are going to need anything else because that nute system looks to be pretty complete and well thought out, even with its own feed schedule. Trust the science... lets see what results.

 

[NickHardy]

Stop changing things on your own and give exactly what the feed schedule calls for. Also be advised that the 10 weeks recommendation talks only about the bloom time... but you had 4-5 weeks of veg before that. Adjust your timeline accordingly. I am not convinced that you need to change anything from the feed schedule and now that you are going back to it, lets go a few feedings before changing anything else so we can establish a base line with your recommended nutes. Keep an eye on her and report back any further changes, but I don't think you are going to need anything else because that nute system looks to be pretty complete and well thought out, even with its own feed schedule. Trust the science... lets see what results.

Wow you’re good and firm. Weff will def pay attention. I just spent ages telling someone I killed 23 seedlings in days doing what he’s doing two miles from where he lives. (2cm high seedlings 1000W lights 30cm away from them - I was never that crazy) and no drainage (I wasn’t that crazy either - 3 weeks in from solos to 1G now 5G airpots and I’m at 1m)

“I researched it can be OK and promote bottom up root growth, if I’m wrong I’d be surprised”

I don't understand a lot of that!

But listen to people growing same style with experience I think is something (soon to be successful grower) @Weffalo gets. Listening is so so important. Every mistake I’ve made is by carelessness or guessing.

Cheers for putting it so succinctly - its a super post.

Nick

 

[Weffalo]

Stop changing things on your own and give exactly what the feed schedule calls for. Also be advised that the 10 weeks recommendation talks only about the bloom time... but you had 4-5 weeks of veg before that. Adjust your timeline accordingly. I am not convinced that you need to change anything from the feed schedule and now that you are going back to it, lets go a few feedings before changing anything else so we can establish a base line with your recommended nutes. Keep an eye on her and report back any further changes, but I don't think you are going to need anything else because that nute system looks to be pretty complete and well thought out, even with its own feed schedule. Trust the science... lets see what results.

Ok thanks a lot Emilya.

I'll go back to the feed schedule and see how I get on. What's confusing is the feed schedule is ten weeks including veg so it's hard to follow it *to the letter* because that would have me on week 9 or the 2nd to last week of the grow, which calls for adding Ripen?

I'll go back to using the mix from week 8 on this schedule? That is what I was using when the problems first appeared but I'll not change anything and show the progress on the plants and see what you think after a few days if I should change anything.

 

[NickHardy]

You’re week 6 max I reckon according to that chart for that plant based on @Emilya Green, comment before.

Dial it all back and watch.

My solution for everything - boring sorry

 

[Emilya Green]

whatever week you are on, use that week on the chart. When you get to week 10, continue using that column until you are in the last week of bloom. Then according to the chart, give just water for that last week.

 

[NickHardy]

Ok but autos?

I’m wondering if that one is rated 8 weeks but an experienced eye might say actually the other two progressed more quickly and are 8 weeks that one had slower growth and is getting 8 weeks doses and not liking it (because its roots for example, developed slower)

So custom that plant by taking the feed back to the first week of flower lower levels and leave the good ones as recommended.

What do you think? It would be my approach, caution first.

 

[Weffalo]

whatever week you are on, use that week on the chart. When you get to week 10, continue using that column until you are in the last week of bloom. Then according to the chart, give just water for that last week.

Ok thanks I'll do that Emilya and get the res filled before lights out in 45 minutes. Out of interest do you have any experience with "ripening"/"Final part" nutrients, does it even mean anything?

FinalPart® - Terra Aquatica

"It sends the plant a strong signal that it is coming to the end of its life; this prompts the plant to accelerate the ripening process."

I'm definitely okay to add this even though we suspect there is much longer left? Just trying to make sure before adding anything that could make the issue worse )

 

[Emilya Green]

Ok thanks I'll do that Emilya and get the res filled before lights out in 45 minutes. Out of interest do you have any experience with "ripening"/"Final part" nutrients, does it even mean anything?

FinalPart® - Terra Aquatica

"It sends the plant a strong signal that it is coming to the end of its life; this prompts the plant to accelerate the ripening process."

I'm definitely okay to add this even though we suspect there is much longer left? Just trying to make sure before adding anything that could make the issue worse )

trust the science. Either trust the nutes and the feeding chart, or use a different nutrient system that you feel more comfortable with. If they say to use the ripening at a specific time, they have their reasons.

Many grow systems have a finishing product that typically adds large amounts of P and K to help the buds finish out. Typically those products are added at around the 5th week of bloom, and you are right there. Yes, it really does do what they are saying it does.

 

[Weffalo]

Okay fantastic, thanks for your help and patience. I'll report back with pics from today so we can better compare in a few days and see how they've reacted.

 

[StoneOtter]

Ahead full Weff!

 

[Weffalo]

So one thing I didn't realise is how much the EC will be raised in these weeks, I'm not testing it but 60ml of final part has gone into the nutrient mix compared to maybe 25ml total ofother nutes in past weeks. A serious bump in nutrition!

I've grabbed some pics with lights off for more accurate comparison in future.
Day 24 flower:

1)

2)

3)

 

[NickHardy]

what is your EC out of interest. I was aiming for 2.4 without Co2 and 3.0 with Co2 but because equipment failures didn’t always have it) But it got as high as 4 in flower. I also trimmed the fan leaves at the bottom right down at around this stage but some (most everyone) says don’t do that so don’t you do it!)

Not too long now mate.

 

[Weffalo]

what is your EC out of interest. I was aiming for 2.4 without Co2 and 3.0 with Co2 but because equipment failures didn’t always have it) But it got as high as 4 in flower. I also trimmed the fan leaves at the bottom right down at around this stage but some (most everyone) says don’t do that so don’t you do it!)

Not too long now mate.

I'm not tracking EC yet mate but I think with autos they would be much lower anyway, at least comparing to my feed schedules for the photos it's significantly more nutes for those


Day 27 of Flower (2 days from correcting feed hopefully):
Plant 2:

Plant 1 (Above)

Plant 3 (Above)

 

[Weffalo]

So the damage was obviously pretty bad but they've had 20 litres of the new feed between them now, I do think it's slowed the issue down/solved it. The plant on the far left is seriously lacking leaves and is drinking slower, they are all actually drinking the res much slower I think that's due to the increased EC.

I removed as many dead leaves as I could but only ones where they were completely dead/fall off with little pressure.

Day 30 of Flower:
1)

2)

3)

(Bud pics blurry sorry )