Subbed in for the grow. I will sit next to Radogast and enjoy the show!
Yankeetoker's 2nd Grow Attempt - 2016 - All Advice Welcome!
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- #22
yankeetoker
Well-Known Member
So based on what you've seen so far,what would you advise?
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- #23
yankeetoker
Well-Known Member
Update 2/8:
Adjusted pH of water for swick to 6.0 this morning (when I top fed my plants on Saturday, runoff was at 8.0) and placed plants back on them after top feeding on Saturday morning. I moved my hydrometer down to pot level to get a more accurate reading of temps and RH.
The two White Widows in the last pic broke ground on 1/5 and 1/6. I'm growing in a cold, somewhat dry basement using a 125 watt CFL.
Adjusted pH of water for swick to 6.0 this morning (when I top fed my plants on Saturday, runoff was at 8.0) and placed plants back on them after top feeding on Saturday morning. I moved my hydrometer down to pot level to get a more accurate reading of temps and RH.
The two White Widows in the last pic broke ground on 1/5 and 1/6. I'm growing in a cold, somewhat dry basement using a 125 watt CFL.
Yankee, I saw your post over at Smokey's place so I popped in.
Your problem is this soil mix is WAY too hot. By comparison here is the dirt that Smokey is growing in.
15 Gallons Peat
5 Gallons Perlite
3 Gallons Worm Castings
1 Gallon Yum-Yum
1 Quart Azomite
3/4 Cup Lime
I was unfamiliar with the lobster compost you're using so I went and had a look. It would also be helpful to know some details about the dry organic fertilizer. My gut feeling is that 3 parts peat to one part lobster compost might even be a bit too rich - especially with added kelp meal and whatever the dry organic fertilizer is. The aeration component looks about right.
More is not always better.
As far as water pH goes you should be fine so long as the water has a pH under 8 and I personally wouldn't mess with trying to alter the pH unless it's above 8 or below 6. Remember that the pH scale is logarithmic so the difference between 8.0 and 8.1 is = to the difference between 7 and 8. If you're anywhere between 6.0 and 8.0 then you're just splitting hairs and the soil will buffer the pH without any help.
It looks like you've been talking to some of the LOS folks. Forget the coconut water and aloe.
Fix the dirt and your plants will grow like champs.
Just my two cents.
PJ
Soil mix used for this grow
Your problem is this soil mix is WAY too hot. By comparison here is the dirt that Smokey is growing in.
15 Gallons Peat
5 Gallons Perlite
3 Gallons Worm Castings
1 Gallon Yum-Yum
1 Quart Azomite
3/4 Cup Lime
I was unfamiliar with the lobster compost you're using so I went and had a look. It would also be helpful to know some details about the dry organic fertilizer. My gut feeling is that 3 parts peat to one part lobster compost might even be a bit too rich - especially with added kelp meal and whatever the dry organic fertilizer is. The aeration component looks about right.
More is not always better.
As far as water pH goes you should be fine so long as the water has a pH under 8 and I personally wouldn't mess with trying to alter the pH unless it's above 8 or below 6. Remember that the pH scale is logarithmic so the difference between 8.0 and 8.1 is = to the difference between 7 and 8. If you're anywhere between 6.0 and 8.0 then you're just splitting hairs and the soil will buffer the pH without any help.
It looks like you've been talking to some of the LOS folks. Forget the coconut water and aloe.
Fix the dirt and your plants will grow like champs.
Just my two cents.
PJ
Yankeetoker has you and PeeJay talking now. I think I might just sit back, relax and stop giving lame advice
I have a few bags of the Coast of Maine lobster compost in the basement if you need a look at the wrapper.
I'd agree with you if you had said ph 6 to 7. My personal experience with 6.5 - 7.0+ was bad.
You have me thinking. I'll pick out a couple of clones and do a PH side by side in 4" pots. It won't help Yankeetoker, but it will keep me honest.
What do you think of me testing in 3-1-3 Peat, lobster compost, and perlite (my seedling mix)?
Wasn't me. I swear!
I didn't do very good at the keeping quiet part... returning to my seat now.
As you know, Rado, I don't get along so well with the LOS geeks.
As far as pH goes this is my experience. My tap water here is right about at 8. I used to water with RO ~6.9 but when it became a hassle I started watering with tap water that I let sit out more often. Eventually I gave up the RO altogether and haven't noticed any difference.
For a seedling mix with the Coast of Main I'd think more like 6 - 8 parts peat, to 1 part compost. After that was mixed I'd add perlite at about 35% - 40% of the peat volume.
I don't have any experience with the Coast of Maine product but I looked at their website. The instructions there for planting trees and shrubs suggest a 50/50 mix of the compost and dirt in a hole for a big shrub or small tree with a large rootball. That is VERY different than container growing cannabis. They even have a video that shows how they make it. It's probably great stuff. It's really a soil conditioner - more like an amendment than a soil. It's far hotter than worm castings.
I see overfeeding as being the issue with Yankee's plants. When a plant is overfed by either soil that is too hot, too many nutrients added, or a combination of both things - they get locked up and burned. Overfeeding is frequently misdiagnosed as a pH issue and then growers start chasing their tail to attempt to fix the issues with pH manipulations.
As mentioned in my previous post I suspect that 3 parts peat to 1 part lobster compost is probably too hot for even large established plants.
I'd like to see you try that light mix with both pH adjusted and straight water.
As far as pH goes this is my experience. My tap water here is right about at 8. I used to water with RO ~6.9 but when it became a hassle I started watering with tap water that I let sit out more often. Eventually I gave up the RO altogether and haven't noticed any difference.
For a seedling mix with the Coast of Main I'd think more like 6 - 8 parts peat, to 1 part compost. After that was mixed I'd add perlite at about 35% - 40% of the peat volume.
I don't have any experience with the Coast of Maine product but I looked at their website. The instructions there for planting trees and shrubs suggest a 50/50 mix of the compost and dirt in a hole for a big shrub or small tree with a large rootball. That is VERY different than container growing cannabis. They even have a video that shows how they make it. It's probably great stuff. It's really a soil conditioner - more like an amendment than a soil. It's far hotter than worm castings.
I see overfeeding as being the issue with Yankee's plants. When a plant is overfed by either soil that is too hot, too many nutrients added, or a combination of both things - they get locked up and burned. Overfeeding is frequently misdiagnosed as a pH issue and then growers start chasing their tail to attempt to fix the issues with pH manipulations.
As mentioned in my previous post I suspect that 3 parts peat to 1 part lobster compost is probably too hot for even large established plants.
I'd like to see you try that light mix with both pH adjusted and straight water.
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- #27
yankeetoker
Well-Known Member
PeeJay:
I've attached the info for the dry organic fertilizer that I used. When I first started this journey, I tried to read as much as I could, etc. and now it seems that I "over did it" (to put it mildly) with my soil.
I have most of the stuff on Smoky's list...my question is can I substitute this for the yum yum mix?
I've attached the info for the dry organic fertilizer that I used. When I first started this journey, I tried to read as much as I could, etc. and now it seems that I "over did it" (to put it mildly) with my soil.
I have most of the stuff on Smoky's list...my question is can I substitute this for the yum yum mix?
I'm not familiar with that product, Yankee. From the label I see that the crude analysis is 4-6-6 compared to yum yum which is 2-1-1. They're very different. My guess is the Garden Tone is not only much stronger than Yum but also much more refined. Yum-Yum looks like this.
Between the Garden-Tone and the kelp meal you are really pushing up the potassium. I love yum yum but you don't need it, really. If you just cut the compost back to 20 - 25% of the peat volume and skipped the garden tone I think you'd have some good soil. That lobster compost looks like a first rate soil conditioner / amendment - you're just using way to much of it.
Between the Garden-Tone and the kelp meal you are really pushing up the potassium. I love yum yum but you don't need it, really. If you just cut the compost back to 20 - 25% of the peat volume and skipped the garden tone I think you'd have some good soil. That lobster compost looks like a first rate soil conditioner / amendment - you're just using way to much of it.
OEF Vet 11B
New Member
Looks like you have all the help you could need. Sub'd!
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- #30
yankeetoker
Well-Known Member
Ok guys, so based off what Smoky is using, how about these modifications? 10 gallons peat moss, 2 gallons lobster compost, 3 gallons perlite.
How much azomite and lime would you add to that? And would that mix be safe to plant right into?
About to go dump that "hot" soil out back in my garden for the spring...lol
How much azomite and lime would you add to that? And would that mix be safe to plant right into?
About to go dump that "hot" soil out back in my garden for the spring...lol
Looks good. That's only 25% perlite by volume and it would be nice to be ~ 30-35% ( I may have left Smokey a little short in the perlite department, but not much.) Do 1/2 cup of lime and 2-3 cups of the azomite.
You don't need to let it cook, but it's better if you do. I'd transplant those seedlings into the new mix right away if it was me.
You don't need to let it cook, but it's better if you do. I'd transplant those seedlings into the new mix right away if it was me.
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- #32
yankeetoker
Well-Known Member
So I'm gonna go with 10 gallons peat, 2 gallons compost, 4 gallons perlite, 1/2 cup lime, and 2 cups azomite....last question....if I were to allow it to "cook", would 2 weeks do?
Yankeetoker!Looks like you are being well taken care of here from start to current.
I just wanted to give you a hearty congratulations for bringing those little ones back to life! They look much better now than they did in the first post pic for sure. You're going to do just fine from hereon!
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For a seedling mix with the Coast of Maine I'd think more like 6 - 8 parts peat, to 1 part compost. After that was mixed I'd add perlite at about 35% - 40% of the peat volume.
...
I'd like to see you try that light mix with both pH adjusted and straight water.
I made up a seedling mix of 7 peat, 1 compost, 5 perlite(38%) and planted a couple of clones.
Nice Rado! And I'm guessing the ones in the background are in the 3/1 mix? We should get some great data about how much of the lobster compost is enough.
Yankee, as I said it doesn't really need to cook at all to work better than what your in. A couple of weeks will be great if you have the time and if you mix up more than you need it'll be fine a year later.
Yankee, as I said it doesn't really need to cook at all to work better than what your in. A couple of weeks will be great if you have the time and if you mix up more than you need it'll be fine a year later.
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- #36
yankeetoker
Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the help, stay tuned!
Ooooooh, throwing down the gauntlet.
This is the one started in the 3/1 Mix and now running in the 2/2mix that I had to move out of the way for this experiment.
But yeah, the 3 plants in the background:
1) The yellowing seedling behind seems to be sensitive to the mix it is in. Two other seedlings passed it a month ago - This plant is a driving force for my seedling mix/ph experiment.
2) The dark green, scrawny one went into flower in the cloner and is now failing to reveg after transplant.
3) At 9 inches tall, this clone has been in the small pot "too long" as experiment #2 of waiting "too long" in the cloner vs. waiting "too long" in a small pot.
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- #38
yankeetoker
Well-Known Member
FYI Pee Jay
This is the fertilizer that I had an my initial mix...went and had a look this morning...
Ooooooh, throwing down the gauntlet.
This is the one started in the 3/1 Mix and now running in the 2/2mix that I had to move out of the way for this experiment.
But yeah, the 3 plants in the background:
1) The yellowing seedling behind seems to be sensitive to the mix it is in. Two other seedlings passed it a month ago - This plant is a driving force for my seedling mix/ph experiment.
2) The dark green, scrawny one went into flower in the cloner and is now failing to reveg after transplant.
3) At 9 inches tall, this clone has been in the small pot "too long" as experiment #2 of waiting "too long" in the cloner vs. waiting "too long" in a small pot.
That larger one looks pretty good, Rado. How old is it? I think by playing around with Yankee and the lobster compost levels you are going to greatly improve your growth rates. I could be wrong, but I think my hunch that that mix of composed lobster shells, manure, and peat humus is stronger than you reckon.
Ok, peeps...soil done! Had everything "laying around ", so I made the mix and put soil in 1 gallon Smart pots to transplant my girls into in the morning. The texture of this mix is so much lighter than the first batch I made.
Thanks for all the help, stay tuned!
Looks great, Yankee. Damn, you move quickly. I'd like to see the soil level in those pots closer to the top of the pot. After you transplant you want to slowly soak all the soil in the pot until it is holding all the water it can. It's a very well drained soil and will hold the right amount of moisture. After you do that you should not water, mist, or anything for at least five days.
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