CBD Auto EmmyStack In AziSIPs, GeoFlora, Sweet Candy, Dynomyco, Roots Organic Soil +

[cbdhemp808]

Ok, so Shiatsu Kush will probably bud rot

It's hard to say, because it could have different phenos. I would say that most well-known sativa/indica hybrids have at least two phenos. Some landrace sativas or landrace indicas might have only one pheno.

Here's how I look at this general question... If you know that a strain has known phenotypes, and you can find a terpene profile of one of those phenotypes that shows promise as being bud rot and/or leaf mold resistant, then you can plant a bunch of seeds of that strain and hunt for that phenotype. Or, if you don't know anything about the phenotypes of a strain, you can still plant a bunch of seeds and flower out the plants and see what happens. The proof is in the pudding. Once you find the golden pheno, you can then clone it indefinitely.

They say that phenotypic expression is a result of both genetics and environment. In terms of genetics, you can see different cannabinoid profiles, different terpene profiles, and different growth habits. These will be consistent for the known phenotypes of a given strain. I would say these are the predominant and predicted expressions, and then they are also affected by environmental factors.

So for example, if we are looking at Chemdawg pheno D, we know what to expect in terms of THC, terpenes, and if it will look more like a sativa (tall), or an indica (short), or something in between. Chemdawg is on my list of next seeds to acquire, and I'll be looking for pheno D, which is terpinolene dominant and high in pinene, but amazingly, it's indica-dominant (~60/40). This pheno might also be what I call a "Holy Grail", meaning both bud rot and leaf mold resistant. Others on my list that are potentially in that category as well are: Chemodo Dragon, Chernobyl, and Agent Orange. But again... those are the strain names... I'll need to find the phenos that match the terp profiles I looked at.

 

[SmokingWings]

Only, may I please ask, what is the deal with Castille soap?
(Why is it better? Because there is no buildup?)

Castile Soap is a type of soap. It is made with organic or naturally sourced ingredients. It is not made using petroleum based oil or any petroleum based ingredients. Any incidental ingredients like a scent or coloring ingredient will also be plant based.

So, it is considered organic and safe for washing skin or in the current case, using as a spray for plants.

 

[CBDMed]

It's hard to say, because it could have different phenos. I would say that most well-known sativa/indica hybrids have at least two phenos. Some landrace sativas or landrace indicas might have only one pheno.

Here's how I look at this general question... If you know that a strain has known phenotypes, and you can find a terpene profile of one of those phenotypes that shows promise as being bud rot and/or leaf mold resistant, then you can plant a bunch of seeds of that strain and hunt for that phenotype. Or, if you don't know anything about the phenotypes of a strain, you can still plant a bunch of seeds and flower out the plants and see what happens. The proof is in the pudding. Once you find the golden pheno, you can then clone it indefinitely.

Ahhh, now I see what you are doing. You are a pheno hunter, and then you want to clone the "ideal strains" for your purposes, in your specific microclimate.

They say that phenotypic expression is a result of both genetics and environment. In terms of genetics, you can see different cannabinoid profiles, different terpene profiles, and different growth habits. These will be consistent for the known phenotypes of a given strain.

Right.

I would say these are the predominant and predicted expressions, and then they are also affected by environmental factors.

Clearly the environment also plays a factor.

So for example, if we are looking at Chemdawg pheno D, we know what to expect in terms of THC, terpenes, and if it will look more like a sativa (tall), or an indica (short), or something in between. Chemdawg is on my list of next seeds to acquire, and I'll be looking for pheno D, which is terpinolene dominant and high in pinene, but amazingly, it's indica-dominant (~60/40). This pheno might also be what I call a "Holy Grail", meaning both bud rot and leaf mold resistant. Others on my list that are potentially in that category as well are: Chemodo Dragon, Chernobyl, and Agent Orange. But again... those are the strain names... I'll need to find the phenos that match the terp profiles I looked at.

May you find your perfect pheno for inhibiting bud rot and leaf mold, and that is does the medicine job you want it to do.

I am thinking about my own situation, and I wonder if fans help with bud rot and leaf mold outdoors.
Right now I have my CBD auto regulars sitting out in the sun, but if any are females, then when they start to send out pistils I will need to bring them under cover.

I have a "plain tarp overhead" section to the greenhouse, but I found out that because of the path of the sun, it does not get the best sunlight in the afternon.

I think the sunight is better in the greenhouse section, which has walls.
I took the doors and two windows off, because there was a ton of condensation (which would surely lead to mold).
I have someone looking for a workman to remove the walls and the doors, and then reinforce a simple overhead fly... but if I cannot find one, I thought I could maybe string a power cord, and push air around inside the greenhouse.
(With no door and no windows, would that work?)

If that will not work I can leave the males out in the open are, and then females back inside, but he says that even though they are autos, they need at least six hours of dark to flower.
So, I could set up a secondary grow room for the females with 18/6, but that would take them out of the natural outside climate, which would seem counterproductive to the goal of adapting them to the cooler weather.

 

[CBDMed]

Castile Soap is a type of soap. It is made with organic or naturally sourced ingredients. It is not made using petroleum based oil or any petroleum based ingredients. Any incidental ingredients like a scent or coloring ingredient will also be plant based.

Hmm... interesting.

"Cold process soap made with 100% olive oil is known as “Castile” soap. It is thought to originate in the Castile region of Spain – thus the name, Castile soap! Olive oil is a staple soaping oil that can be found in many cold process recipes. Olive oil contributes moisturizing properties to soap. It also gives the bars a gentle and creamy (read: small, lotion-like) lather, making it a great choice for dry or sensitive skin."

So, it is considered organic and safe for washing skin or in the current case, using as a spray for plants.

Yes. If it is softer for babies, then it should be softer for plants as well.
And the fact that it is 100% organic should be good for the soil.
Muy interesante.
Gracias.

 

[CBDMed]

Hmm... a few of the plants have light green tips on the new growth.
Is this an "early warning sign" of anything?

 

[CBDMed]

On the roof, I went back up, and there were some small black flies (and they leave a welt), and also some bug I did not recognize, but I did not pay him too much mind (and now I wish I had taken a picture).

I did not see any eggs or anything on the underside of the leaf. (Sorry, the old cell phone did not focus real well.)

I looked up plant problems, and it says that in the USA there is a Four Lined Plant Bug that appears in the US in the changes of summer and winter. The damage looks very similar.

I think it could have been this. I hope he will not like the taste of neem and soap. I gave it another heavy spray, just to make sure he does not enjoy his lunch, and does not come back to this salad bar.

 

[cbdhemp808]

What I use... Dr. Bronner's peppermint liquid soap. I use 1 tbsp neem oil, 1 tbsp soap, in 1 gal pure water in the pump sprayer.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Reminds me possibly of leaf hopper. I had a lot of this in the fall. Though I did see a bug or 2, they didn't stick around.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Ahhh, now I see what you are doing. You are a pheno hunter, and then you want to clone the "ideal strains" for your purposes, in your specific microclimate.

Yeah, ideal phenos of specific strains. I'm entering a new phase now of specifically looking for strains that have promising phenos for bud rot and leaf mold resistance, but I haven't ordered the seeds yet. I've got 7 strains I'm interested in. In the past, when I order seeds of a particular strain, I'll grow them out and select and keep the most vigorous ones. That's what I did with my original cbd strain, and found 2 vigorous phenos, and a 3rd that was particularly indica-dominant, and with high resin production and terpene odor (like grape).

My big realization recently is that all these strains we look at, available as feminized or regular seed, are the result of breeding of indica/sativa hybrids, and the vast majority of them will produce at least 2 phenotypes when you grow them out. Some have even 5 phenotypes. These are known phenotypes, as in... when you plant the seeds, you're going to get plants that are one of the known phenotypes. The revelation is that most of the seed sellers, and the websites that give you info about the strains, have oversimplified the situation and they won't even mention the phenotypes. Some breeders use techniques to reduced phenotypic variation, but I don't think they can claim to eliminate it. Many popular strains are known to have multiple phenos, and this is accepted and no mystery – for example, Jack Herer and Chemdawg, to name just two. These are stable strains, but they aren't what are called true-breeding IBLs, which are seed lines that produce a very high percent of a single dominant phenotype. Some examples of true-breeding IBLs would be White Widow and Skunk #1, but even those are not guaranteed to be true-breeding – it depends on the breeder and seller. Landrace strains are true-breeding, having been stabilized naturally over hundreds of years.

(EDIT: A bit more info on IBLs that I just posted to another thread... "I'm no expert, but F5 generation is considered the minimum to create an IBL (inbred line), or maybe F6 would be the minimum. But this doesn't mean that the seed won't throw more than one pheno. It could mean, for example, that an F5 inbred Chemdawg #4 will usually throw offspring consistent with Chemdawg #4 traits. A great example of the result of careful IBL breeding is Cinderella 99. As far as I can tell, Cinderella 99 is very stable, but in fact has 2 phenotypes.")​

There's another nuance to what I'm saying in the preceding paragraph, regarding phenotypic variation. Some strains will have a particular phenotype emerge as the most desirable one, and then any reference to that strain is essentially referencing the one favorite phenotype that breeders and sellers focus on. An example of this is Chemdawg, which has 4 or 5 phenotypes. One of those phenotypes is known as Chemdawg '91, and that has become the most popular one, and people just called it Chemdawg. I think it's probably safe to say that breeders of Chemdawg have stabilized Chemdawg '91 toward a true-breeding seed line. So, if you happen to be looking for a particular phenotype, then you should order seeds of the original strain, not a stabilized seed line of a particular phenotype.

I am thinking about my own situation, and I wonder if fans help with bud rot and leaf mold outdoors.

I have given up on that whole line of reasoning, because mold/fungus is so predominant here in my warm, wet environment. But yes, experienced growers recommend fans, for indoor or greenhouse.

I think the sunlight is better in the greenhouse section, which has walls.
I took the doors and two windows off, because there was a ton of condensation (which would surely lead to mold).
I have someone looking for a workman to remove the walls and the doors, and then reinforce a simple overhead fly... but if I cannot find one, I thought I could maybe string a power cord, and push air around inside the greenhouse.
(With no door and no windows, would that work?)

My veg greenhouse has screen walls, an open area above the walls, and "low" PVC hoops... designed for air flow and to release heat.

After a wind storm, I added these supports.

If that will not work I can leave the males out in the open are, and then females back inside, but he says that even though they are autos, they need at least six hours of dark to flower.

Are you keeping the males to pollinate the females? If so, it's a bad idea to release pollen into the area because it can travel for miles on the wind and will pollinate the buds of anybody growing in your area. Best to tent the males, collect their pollen, and put it in the fridge or freezer... others on the forum here can give you the best tips for doing that.

RE: autos needing specific night length. I'm guessing that if the autoflowering trait wasn't very strong, that might be true; however, probably most autoflowers don't suffer from that. I had a CBG here recently that was starting to flower even with the night-interruption lighting that I use. It was a photoperiod pheno, however with a recessive (weak) autoflowering trait. So, the autoflowering trait can be either strong or weak, or perhaps like a spectrum. With your autos you have growing, some of the phenos may be stronger/weaker than others in this regard. That's my guess.

So, I could set up a secondary grow room for the females with 18/6, but that would take them out of the natural outside climate, which would seem counterproductive to the goal of adapting them to the cooler weather.

OK, so it looks like you are interested in breeding them. In that case, you are also hunting for phenos... the ones with the most vigor and the strongest autoflowering expression. Beyond that, you could also select for terpene profiles and resin production, which in turn affect bud rot and leaf mold resistance. Also, cannabinoid profile... percent of CBD.

There's a breeder called Twenty20 in Mendocino, Calif., that has an interested page on their website talking about their autoflowers and breeding techniques... you might want to check it out. I'd give the link, but I think that's probably against the forum rules.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Once you find the golden pheno, you can then clone it indefinitely.

But not for autoflowers.

 

[CBDMed]

What I use... Dr. Bronner's peppermint liquid soap. I use 1 tbsp neem oil, 1 tbsp soap, in 1 gal pure water in the pump sprayer.

Ahh, ok.
Do you bud wash?

 

[cbdhemp808]

Do you bud wash?

I've never washed buds, although I've had plenty of bud rot. If I miss the "harvest window" and bud rots sets in, then I throw it all out. I trim immediately after harvest. If some buds have rot, but others don't, I'm very good at discerning that as I trim, wearing my headlamp and high-magnifying reading glasses. I only keep clean buds and remove any bugs by hand.

That said, I'm heading toward getting away from all this, by growing only naturally bud rot and leaf mold resistant phenos. My last harvest was excellent, Humboldt Dream, even though my environment is very conducive to but rot. I've also found that leaf mold doesn't affect the buds. Some PM situations will affect sugar leaves to the point where I'll need to trim closer than I'd like to, losing trichomes. Any phenos that show this problem, going forward, I'm not going to clone them... I'll give up on that pheno. I'm actually now letting go of Seedsman 30:1 CBD because it's prone to PM.

Because I'm focusing on phenos and clones in my grow, and because I'm in an environment that's very prone to mold and fungus, I have a unique opportunity to identify genetic susceptibilities when I grow plants side-by-side in the greenhouses. Under all the same conditions, I can easily see natural resistance standing out. Once identified, I can perpetuate the phenos indefinitely through cloning.

 

[InTheShed]

I've never washed buds

You spray with neem and Dr Bronner's and don't wash your flowers after harvest? Do you stop spraying completely in flower?

 

[cbdhemp808]

You spray with neem and Dr Bronner's and don't wash your flowers after harvest? Do you stop spraying completely in flower?

I don't spray flowers with anything other than peroxide solution, but I'm also trying to completely eliminate that by finding the naturally resistant phenos. If I had to spray a plant in flower due to bugs, I would use only a solution of a small amount of food grade orange oil (limonene) and an equal amount of Bronner's, in water, and I would avoid spraying the flowers. If a plant in my flower house has no flowers yet, I would treat it the same as being in veg, and would use neem and Bronner's for bugs.

 

[InTheShed]

I don't spray flowers with anything other than peroxide solution, but I'm also trying to completely eliminate that by finding the naturally resistant phenos. If I had to spray a plant in flower due to bugs, I would use only a solution of a small amount of food grade orange oil (limonene) and an equal amount of Bronner's, in water, and I would avoid spraying the flowers. If a plant in my flower house has no flowers yet, I would treat it the same as being in veg, and would use neem and Bronner's for bugs.

I take it that you don't get bugs on your flowers then, or do find peroxide kills whatever is eating them?

 

[cbdhemp808]

I take it that you don't get bugs on your flowers then, or do find peroxide kills whatever is eating them?

Yeah, it's true. I rarely ever find something eating my flowers. Once in a great while I see a green caterpillar or two, which I just pick off. Or maybe a little aphid activity, but not like an infestation that's going to damage the flowers. I do get bugs in veg, but not a lot. For some reason, once the flowers form, not really any bug damage to leaves. This might be due to a pheno's natural defenses, or because neem applied in veg has become systemic in the plant.

I have used the peroxide solution against leaf mold and bud rot. Not really for bugs specifically.

 

[CBDMed]

Yeah, ideal phenos of specific strains. I'm entering a new phase now of specifically looking for strains that have promising phenos for bud rot and leaf mold resistance, but I haven't ordered the seeds yet. I've got 7 strains I'm interested in. In the past, when I order seeds of a particular strain, I'll grow them out and select and keep the most vigorous ones. That's what I did with my original cbd strain, and found 2 vigorous phenos, and a 3rd that was particularly indica-dominant, and with high resin production and terpene odor (like grape).

Ok.

My big realization recently is that all these strains we look at, available as feminized or regular seed, are the result of breeding of indica/sativa hybrids, and the vast majority of them will produce at least 2 phenotypes when you grow them out. Some have even 5 phenotypes. These are known phenotypes, as in... when you plant the seeds, you're going to get plants that are one of the known phenotypes. The revelation is that most of the seed sellers, and the websites that give you info about the strains, have oversimplified the situation and they won't even mention the phenotypes. Some breeders use techniques to reduced phenotypic variation, but I don't think they can claim to eliminate it. Many popular strains are known to have multiple phenos, and this is accepted and no mystery – for example, Jack Herer and Chemdawg, to name just two. These are stable strains, but they aren't what are called true-breeding IBLs, which are seed lines that produce a very high percent of a single dominant phenotype. Some examples of true-breeding IBLs would be White Widow and Skunk #1, but even those are not guaranteed to be true-breeding – it depends on the breeder and seller. Landrace strains are true-breeding, having been stabilized naturally over hundreds of years.

(EDIT: A bit more info on IBLs that I just posted to another thread... "I'm no expert, but F5 generation is considered the minimum to create an IBL (inbred line), or maybe F6 would be the minimum. But this doesn't mean that the seed won't throw more than one pheno. It could mean, for example, that an F5 inbred Chemdawg #4 will usually throw offspring consistent with Chemdawg #4 traits. A great example of the result of careful IBL breeding is Cinderella 99. As far as I can tell, Cinderella 99 is very stable, but in fact has 2 phenotypes.")​

Yeah, I never thought about it, but that seems like good info, thanks.
I am not really trying to breed anything right now. Right now I am just trying to adapt some "auto regulars" to this climate.
Later I may want to breed, but right now it is way over my level.

There's another nuance to what I'm saying in the preceding paragraph, regarding phenotypic variation. Some strains will have a particular phenotype emerge as the most desirable one, and then any reference to that strain is essentially referencing the one favorite phenotype that breeders and sellers focus on. An example of this is Chemdawg, which has 4 or 5 phenotypes. One of those phenotypes is known as Chemdawg '91, and that has become the most popular one, and people just called it Chemdawg. I think it's probably safe to say that breeders of Chemdawg have stabilized Chemdawg '91 toward a true-breeding seed line. So, if you happen to be looking for a particular phenotype, then you should order seeds of the original strain, not a stabilized seed line of a particular phenotype.

You have an interesting thread. I am interested to see what your final results are.
I have not tried Chemdawg. Is it anything like diesel?

I have given up on that whole line of reasoning, because mold/fungus is so predominant here in my warm, wet environment. But yes, experienced growers recommend fans, for indoor or greenhouse.

It seems to make sense. Eliminate the problem rather than deal with the problem.

My veg greenhouse has screen walls, an open area above the walls, and "low" PVC hoops... designed for air flow and to release heat.

After a wind storm, I added these supports.

Your rain-fly greenhouse looks great. It would be great to have mesh walls to keep the uninviteds out.

Are you keeping the males to pollinate the females?

Yes.

If so, it's a bad idea to release pollen into the area because it can travel for miles on the wind and will pollinate the buds of anybody growing in your area. Best to tent the males, collect their pollen, and put it in the fridge or freezer... others on the forum here can give you the best tips for doing that.

Yes, I was thinking the pollen would get all over my hands and clothes when I go up on the roof to feed and maintain, and that it would seed the girls downstairs for sure.
I thought I could collect the earliest pollen sacks on any males, and then make seeds and pollinate what is needed, and then destroy the males young (and re-use the soil for another purpose).
(At least it sounds good in theory...)

I would like to isolate the males, but an isolated tent is not possible here, beacuse of condensation.
I had a bamboo greenhouse put up on the roof, but I had to take the doors and the window off, because of condensation.
I need to have the plastic walls taken off, so I can get good airflow.
Alternately, I *could just string a power cord, and put some fans, to make sure the air stays moving.

RE: autos needing specific night length. I'm guessing that if the autoflowering trait wasn't very strong, that might be true; however, probably most autoflowers don't suffer from that. I had a CBG here recently that was starting to flower even with the night-interruption lighting that I use. It was a photoperiod pheno, however with a recessive (weak) autoflowering trait. So, the autoflowering trait can be either strong or weak, or perhaps like a spectrum. With your autos you have growing, some of the

Hmmm.... sounds like good info.
I asked "Mr. Tao" about his seeds, and he said that he grows in greenhouses, so he likes mold resistant strains. But how mold resistant they are really, I do not know. I chose one of his Blueberry strains to start with, because I think (you or) someone said that blueberry is somewhat mold resistant, so I thought I would start with that.
I planted three more seeds, but so far nothing has come up.

phenos may be stronger/weaker than others in this regard. That's my guess.

Yes.
CBD God used to throw at least 2 phenos (Sativa and Indica), so I think I might know what you mean.

OK, so it looks like you are interested in breeding them. In that case, you are also hunting for phenos... the ones with the most vigor and the strongest autoflowering expression. Beyond that, you could also select for terpene profiles and resin production, which in turn affect bud rot and leaf mold resistance. Also, cannabinoid profile... percent of CBD.

Well, right now I am only trying to adapt them.
Later it would be great to try breeding, but at the moment I need to focus on other areas of learning.

There's a breeder called Twenty20 in Mendocino, Calif., that has an interested page on their website talking about their autoflowers and breeding techniques... you might want to check it out. I'd give the link, but I think that's probably against the forum rules.

If they are not sponsors, then yes, probably it is better not to put the URL.
It came up easy on an internet search.
You like them because they have a lot of resistance to mold? Or is it the breeding techniques I should check out?
Thanks.

 

[CBDMed]

That said, I'm heading toward getting away from all this, by growing only naturally bud rot and leaf mold resistant phenos. My last harvest was excellent, Humboldt Dream, even though my environment is very conducive to but rot. I've also found that leaf mold doesn't affect the buds. Some PM situations will affect sugar leaves to the point where I'll need to trim closer than I'd like to, losing trichomes. Any phenos that show this problem, going forward, I'm not going to clone them... I'll give up on that pheno. I'm actually now letting go of Seedsman 30:1 CBD because it's prone to PM.

Because I'm focusing on phenos and clones in my grow, and because I'm in an environment that's very prone to mold and fungus, I have a unique opportunity to identify genetic susceptibilities when I grow plants side-by-side in the greenhouses. Under all the same conditions, I can easily see natural resistance standing out. Once identified, I can perpetuate the phenos indefinitely through cloning.

It makes total sense. Do the heavy lifting now, and then you can live without fanage later.

 

[CBDMed]

I don't spray flowers with anything other than peroxide solution, but I'm also trying to completely eliminate that by finding the naturally resistant phenos. If I had to spray a plant in flower due to bugs, I would use only a solution of a small amount of food grade orange oil (limonene) and an equal amount of Bronner's, in water, and I would avoid spraying the flowers. If a plant in my flower house has no flowers yet, I would treat it the same as being in veg, and would use neem and Bronner's for bugs.

Hahaha, sounds like you could have been a breeder?

 

[CBDMed]

This is CBD Crack. The tips are light green.
She is in Roots Organic soil, with 1 pre-load of GeoFlora Veg in the SIP before I planted seeds.
The feeding schedule is off because ran out of GF Veg, so I used GF Bloom and I think a little urine.
With pistils starting to come on, I gave a starting (low) dose of PK-13/14.
They also got Orca liquid myco, Recharge, and some molasses.

Overall the plants look healthy, but the tips are starting to turn light green on a few of the plants.
Is this a deficiency that I should address? Or is it more, "No worries, gro"?

Is that maybe a hint of nitrogen clawing on the small leaves around the bud sites? Or not really?

Gracias.