Colombian Andes Greenhouse SIP CBD Auto Grow

[Azimuth]

The hollow stems are my experience with the SIPs and the limbs seem to be much more robust than I was used to before. So, no to HST, but you can do LST, but gently bend an established limb to where you want it over several days, not all at once if you meet resistance. Starting really early while the limbs are soft and bendy helps here.

 

[CBDMed]

The hollow stems are my experience with the SIPs and the limbs seem to be much more robust than I was used to before. So, no to HST, but you can do LST, but gently bend an established limb to where you want it over several days, not all at once if you meet resistance. Starting really early while the limbs are soft and bendy helps here.

Yeah, but I barely touched her! (I mean like, I bent her less than an inch, and something went "snap!"
She seems ok today (no wilting), but I don't think I want to bend anything with this strain that is not soft new growth.

 

[StoneOtter]

Kind of like putting a salt lick out for the cows, and they take what they want?

Kind of. It's like a bank for later use.

 

[Azimuth]

You definitely can't wait too long with SIPs because the limbs get very strong, very fast and then the joint is the weak link.

But the soft, supple, new growth is definitely best.

 

[Emilya Green]

Oh!!
Oy!! Well, I was just trying to copycat @Emilya Green. ("Monkey see, monkey do...")
I was just stoked because WITH a SIP, my auto Northern Lights CBD is finally maybe a third as big as her auto was, WITHOUT a SIP (Hahaha)!

It's just all "monkey see, monkey do" here!
(Monkey mess up, hopefully monkey learn over time?? Haha oy...!)
I was hoping to do the same thing with the Afghan Mass XXL as with the NL CBD, but if the stalks break, I need a new strategy for that strain.... (Any ideas?? :hopeful

It felt like a lot to take the top four fans, but I could not think of any other way to get light to the lower branches.
I am hoping to bend the newgrowth flat as it develops (i.e., while it is still soft) with long training hoops, and hopefully the lower branches will catch up as she grows??
If that is wrong, then I am out of ideas (and I hope that Emmers will know what to do).
(Not sure what is going on with my camera. There are vertical lines in the grow room only. Is it some kind of 50Hz / 60 Hz refresh issue? It started a few days ago. It is iPhone SE 2020.)

The goal is to get her to grow like the NL CBD (copycat of Emilya).
Other than that I am just trying to remove any fan leaf that is pointed either in, or sideways, or blocks a bud site, to open up the center of the plant. (And that is the extent of my strategy...)

It looks fantastic amigo, don't change a thing. That is exactly how I'm going to try to train my next Auto. Get those big leaves out of the way and the plant will take off!

 

[CBDMed]

Kind of. It's like a bank for later use.

Wow! That's great! I would not have thought of that.
How deep does it go? (All the way to the bottom?)

 

[CBDMed]

It looks fantastic amigo, don't change a thing. That is exactly how I'm going to try to train my next Auto. Get those big leaves out of the way and the plant will take off!

Wow! I got one right! ( What happened?? Lol!)
Thank you, @Emilya Green !

 

[Keffka]

I am not sure if @cbdhemp808 is on the other thread or not, but he has been helping me here, so thanks for posting here. You are probably right. The SIP probably speeds up the entire decomposition process. It has been amazing for the little girls!

Yeah, that makes total sense. It ain't broke, so leave it alone??

So, may I please ask, what do you do for layers and spikes? (What is your routine?)
I am very interested to leave the girls something for when they are in bloom.
And sorry to show my ignorance, but why is a layer or a spike better for that, than just blending it in with the soil evenly?

Layers and spikes serve similar purposes in different ways. Nitrogen and phosphorus cannot be added globally to the soil mix in sufficient amounts, or there would be big problems with the microlife. So instead we use spikes to deliver the amounts required by the plant without upsetting the balance of the microlife. For instance, P is critical to cannabis growth but it’s presence discourages myco growth. Myco is the single best releaser of P. So you need enough P to feed a plant but not so much that Myco won’t colonize. You can use a spike for this so the myco will grow and can tap the source of P.

Same thing for the layers. We put down layers of nutrients as well as organic matter to give the plant and roots the supplies necessary to fuel the plants growth without upsetting the balance of life in the container. Doing these things empowers the plant and the micro life in the soil to take charge of its growth and deliver the nutrients it needs when it decides it needs it. Similar to what we’re doing with the SIP and allowing the plant and roots to decide the water it wants.
Here’s an example of a flowering container with layers:

So, do I recondition the supersoil?
Or do I just re-use it (and maybe use a touch more)? Or do I re-cook it? And if I re-cook it, how do I know how much of what to add?

If you’re confident in the soils nutrient content then I’d advise just cooking it for 30 days to rid any sort of nasties in the mix. If you’re unsure of the content in the soil then you’re gonna need to either get the soil tested or you can try a recycle recipe. Getting the soil tested is a sure way of knowing what’s in there and what needs to be added. Attempting a recycle recipe comes with risks. You could throw the balance off in the soil which will be hard to figure out.. You’ll also have to monitor your plants closely to watch for deficiencies or excesses and adjust from there.

Personally I would only recycle soils I know the content of and have been working with. That way I’m not spending time and energy using stuff I may not need just to create even more work for myself. I have only recently begun recycling and the method I prefer is running everything through a worm farm and using the castings.

However, there are other gardeners here who are much more knowledgeable about recycling soils who may have an alternate opinion or method they can point you too. Checking out the organic forums here could be a useful place to start.

 

[Keffka]

Here’s an example of the spikes

The spikes do not go to the bottom.. about 2 inches above is where they usually stop since there is also typically a compost layer on the bottom

 

[Keffka]

I reformatted my first response, for some reason it had double posted what I wrote

FYI when it comes to spikes. We only put spikes in at transplant time. You want the spikes to be a little distance from the roots/rootball so the roots have to seek it out. If they have direct contact with the roots before the roots Have a chance to establish it can burn the plant.

Using zones/layers and spikes is all about putting resources in places the plant can find and use at its discretion.

 

[CBDMed]

Hey @Keffka ! Perfect timing!
I will really have to do some head scratching now!

Layers and spikes both have similar purposes. Layers are established in the container to give the roots access to a general set of nutrients in specific places, as well as to help supercharge the microbes in the places they really congregate.

Hahaha, "Where dem likes to hang out, mon? Where be dey congregations?

This is also really useful for myco expansion. Myco growth is discouraged by the presence of P (Phosphorus), but P is also very important in all stages. Myco is the best releaser of P as well

So, it is kind of a self-regulating releaser of P??
(And is that why everyone seems to love DynoMyco?? Or is it for different reasons?)

so you want to have myco colonization.

Sorry, that is a new term for me. "Myco colonization."
(Frankly, I am not clear on the relationship between microbes and myco.
Does myco release microbes? Or how does that work?

You can use this knowledge to establish sources of P in specific locations so the plant will have access to it as needed, and you’ll be able to grow out a successful myco colony. These aren’t the only benefits but they’re the ones that really caught my eye.

Spikes are a bit more strain and phase dependent. Spikes are meant to deliver phase and strain specific nutrients in a location that allows the plants roots to decide when and how much of it they want. When you spike a blend and allow the roots to discover it they will tap the deposit and use it as needed. They won’t waste energy hunting down small amounts of required nutrients because they will have a large source in one spot they can feed from. It’s similar to how the SIP allows the plant to decide how much water it wants instead of us just drenching it based on our perception. Instead of just pouring nutrients all over the place forcing the plant to our perception, we leave deposits for the plant to tap.

Thank you very much! That was clear. And very interesting!
You are stocking the pantry for them, then? And they come get what they want, when they want?

Layers and spikes serve similar purposes in different ways. Nitrogen and phosphorus cannot be added globally to the soil mix in sufficient amounts, or there would be big problems with the microlife.

Ahhh!!
Ummm, but in that case, does microlife thrive in supersoil?
Because in these SIPs it is all supersoil, except for about a Solo Cup's worth (for starting).

So instead we use spikes to deliver the amounts required by the plant without upsetting the balance of the microlife.For instance, P is critical to cannabis growth but it’s presence discourages myco growth. Myco is the single best releaser of P. So you need enough P to feed a plant but not so much that Myco won’t colonize. You can use a spike for this so the myco will grow and can tap the source of P.

Is it correct to think that myco releases beneficial microbes? (I tried Googling it, but got unrelated answers.)
And do those beneficial microbes thrive in supersoil?

Same thing for the layers. We put down layers of nutrients as well as organic matter to give the plant and roots the supplies necessary to fuel the plants growth without upsetting the balance of life in the container. Doing these things empowers the plant and the micro life in the soil to take charge of its growth and deliver the nutrients it needs when it decides it needs it. Similar to what we’re doing with the SIP and allowing the plant and roots to decide the water it wants.

Here’s an example of a flowering container with layers:

Ok, so now I am thinking to myself, "I must not know how plants work."
I can understand why you would want to put a layer of blood meal (or other high nitrogen blend) near the top of a top-watered container (except that everyone would scream unless I cooked it first). But why place most of the nitrogen placed on the bottom? Is the tap root able to access all that?

I would have thought that N near the top would be logical (for growth), and that near the bottom you would ideally want P for flowering. So why do they have most of the N near the bottom of the pot?

If you’re confident in the soils nutrient content then I’d advise just cooking it for 30 days to rid any sort of nasties in the mix.

Thank you! That is very helpful!
And maybe I am wrong, but I am thinking that 85-90% of the nutrition in those buckets is still there.
Because I have had great big photos growing in 5G with supersoil, and none of these little bitty autos got anywhere near that big.

If you’re unsure of the content in the soil then you’re gonna need to either get the soil tested or you can try a recycle recipe. Getting the soil tested is a sure way of knowing what’s in there and what needs to be added. Attempting a recycle recipe comes with risks. You could throw the balance off in the soil which will be hard to figure out.. You’ll also have to monitor your plants closely to watch for deficiencies or excesses and adjust from there.

Hmmm....
Oy.
Well, then, to think clearly, in these cloth pots, the bottom +/- 1/3 was supersoil. (I guess the buckets were 3Gs not 5Gs )
The top 2/3 was canna soil with an extra 10-15% worm castings, molasses, top-dressings, etc.
Did I mention the grow was cut short?
Here is an autopsy on one of the larger plants. I don't see any roots in the supersoil (this is the pre-rice-hulls version).

Here is a smaller plant I tries to separate the top 2/3 but it didn't work so good.

And then here is the pre-rice-hull supersoil on the bottom, again with no roots.
So I don't know why there are no tap roots (unless they deteriorated or something).
Maybe the pre-rice-hull (pre-aeration) supersoil was so soggy, and so wet, that the roots maybe never even formed?

I don't see any roots, so would it work to separate the unusued supersoil, mix in the rice hulls, and then let it cook again for 30 days?

Personally I would only recycle soils I know the content of and have been working with. That way I’m not spending time and energy using stuff I may not need just to create even more work for myself. I have only recently begun recycling and the method I prefer is running everything through a worm farm and using the castings.

Ok, thank you! I will need to revisit this question after this soil is spent the next time.
I think we can have soil tested. I think it is not too much (it just takes a really long time.) But if I have two batches of supersoil and can rotate, I should be able to deal with it.

So when this current batch in the SIPs is spent, then we can test that?

However, there are other gardeners here who are much more knowledgeable about recycling soils who may have an alternate opinion or method they can point you too. Checking out the organic forums here could be a useful place to start.

It will be great to get time!
Thank you!

 

[CBDMed]

I reformatted my first response, for some reason it had double posted what I wrote

Yeah, but it worked out real good!

FYI when it comes to spikes. We only put spikes in at transplant time. You want the spikes to be a little distance from the roots/rootball so the roots have to seek it out. If they have direct contact with the roots before the roots Have a chance to establish it can burn the plant.

Ahh, ok! Very good to know! (And it makes sense.)

Using zones/layers and spikes is all about putting resources in places the plant can find and use at its discretion.

That makes sense. Good rule of thumb! Thank you!

 

[cbdhemp808]

Ahh! Now I understand your question. I only knew of the one recipe.

Subcool’s Super Soil Step-by-Step

There’s nothing that compares to the flavor of properly grown organic pot: The subtle tastes and aromas created by using only “Mother Earth” are overwhelming to the senses when it’s done properly. As with vegetables, a rich organic soil can bring out the best in cannabis. Over the past 20 years...

hightimes.com

• 8 large bags of a high-quality organic potting soil with coco fiber and mycorrhizae (i.e., your base soil)
• 25 to 50 lbs of organic worm castings
• 5 lbs steamed bone meal
• 5 lbs Bloom bat guano
• 5 lbs blood meal
• 3 lbs rock phosphate
• ¾ cup Epson salts
• ½ cup sweet lime (dolomite)
• ½ cup azomite (trace elements)
• 2 tbsp powdered humic acid

Wow, that's a big batch.

You've got N in the blood meal (12-X-X), bone meal (3-X-X). The bloom bat guano likely has little to no N. The worm castings might have some N.

Do you know the NPK of the potting soil and worm castings?

I am sitting here thinking I still must not know how plants work.
Don't lots of guys add 40% aeration, and have no issues at all?

It's not a matter of how much aeration (perlite?), it's a matter of the proper nutrient concentrations in the finished mix. I just recently mixed up a batch of recycled soil in my wheelbarrow. I'm guessing the starting soil was about 10 gal, and very dry. I added all my usual organic fertilizers to that, incl. humic acid and fulvic acid. And then a good amount of perlite – I think between 1 and 2 gal. Then I poured in 2-3 gal of rainwater and mixed well. Then I added 2 gal damp coco coir, and 2 gal damp worm castings, and mixed 'em in thoroughly.

So I can only imagine the rice hulls are decomposing faster in the SIP environment, and thus are eating N (and O2).
But if the soil is fluffier, and the girls' little roots can breathe better, then don't they grow faster through said soil? (Meaning, maybe technically the roots need to grow more to get the same amount of nutrition, but then on the other hand, they CAN grow easier and better, because now they have sufficient air???)
Or how do roots really work?

There's a happy medium there. Coco coir is really great – inert, great pH range, allows water to rapidly permeate the soil and holds some moisture. As you can see in my recipe above, there's not a huge amount of coir in the mix.

 

[CBDMed]

Wow, that's a big batch.

Well, with 20 SIPs, it makes about two batches. So if I can rotate batches, I *should (there's that WORD) be ok, Father willing.

You've got N in the blood meal (12-X-X), bone meal (3-X-X). The bloom bat guano likely has little to no N. The worm castings might have some N.

Siiii....

Do you know the NPK of the potting soil and worm castings?

Sorry, I wish I did.
The first batch of soil I bought from them seemed to be quality made (but no knowledge of the NPK).
Then I am not sure what happened, but the second batch was lousy (rocks, sticks, dirt clumps, etc.), so I did not buy any more (and they don't sell it anymore).

Then I bought a different bag of soil from them for the "Solo-Cup's-worth" of starter soil. It says it is only for the first few weeks of veg, and then you have to add nutes for bloom (and they don't sell that anymore, either).

They still sell Roots Organic mix (and I think Roots has a factory here in Colombia).
They say it is only for veg (and then one has to add nutes for bloom). It is a little expensive, but still affordable.
"Ingredients: Perlite, Coco Coir, Peat, Composite Forest Material, Pumice, Worm Casting, Bat Guano, Soybean Meal, Alfalfa Meal, Herringbone Meal, Seaweed Meal, and Green Sand. Also contains beneficial mycorrhizal fungi: Funneliformis mosseae, Rhizophagus intraradices, Septoglomus desertícola to improve plant nutrient uptake, increase root biomass and help container grown plants resist stress."
No idea on NPK, though, but I would suspect high in N, and low in P and K.

There are other grow shops, but soil and nute options are rather limited compared to the US (which is why I was so excited to find supersoil components).

Long term I want to learn how to make my own soil.
I am willing to test (although it takes a while).

The locals dig a pit, throw their kitchen waste in it, and then use that for fertilizer in their gardens (basically, kitchen compost). We hope to make our own, to eliminate GMOs, etc. I will add worms (if they don't auto-populate).

There is maybe a foot of heavy clay volcanic topsoil everywhere here. It is very black and rich and fertile, but there is a LOT of clay. If I can find gypsum ("yeso") I can try to loosen it up long term (for future grows). Only, it will take time for the gypsum to do its thing, and I probably won't try that until we relocate to the property (maybe in about a year).

I am trying to see if I can find the same local potting mix here as I could in my last valley. It looks kitchen compost mixed with lots of rice hulls (if I can find it).

I can get coco coir, ag perlite (grey), and rice hulls freely, all over the internet (and for cheap).
Long term I am envisioning loosening the black clay with gypsum, mixing with rice hulls and coco coir and perlite, and augmenting with cow, sheep, and chicken manures, as well as our own organic slaughterhouse products (blood meal, bone meal, feather meal, etc.).
I have feelers out to get a big sack of kelp and ocean algaes (we will see).
I am not sure if we are proceeding with the trout ponds or not, but if we have trout ponds, there will also be fish meals.
We have bats in the roof of an old antique house. Maybe there is enough to collect? Hahahaha. (And if not, it is not too expensive to buy locally).
And I have like a lifetime supply of Epsom salts, Humic Acid and Fulvic Acid (although I am not really sure what they, are or how to use them!...)

Now I just need to know what to do, and how to do it, hahaha ....

It's not a matter of how much aeration (perlite?), it's a matter of the proper nutrient concentrations in the finished mix.

Oh. Thank you for telling me!

I just recently mixed up a batch of recycled soil in my wheelbarrow. I'm guessing the starting soil was about 10 gal, and very dry. I added all my usual organic fertilizers to that, incl. humic acid and fulvic acid. And then a good amount of perlite – I think between 1 and 2 gal. Then I poured in 2-3 gal of rainwater and mixed well. Then I added 2 gal damp coco coir, and 2 gal damp worm castings, and mixed 'em in thoroughly.

Hmmm....

There's a happy medium there. Coco coir is really great – inert, great pH range, allows water to rapidly permeate the soil and holds some moisture. As you can see in my recipe above, there's not a huge amount of coir in the mix.

Ok, well, I guess we will know more in a couple of months, when I do an autopsy on the existing SIP planters.
Maybe I should check for supersoil reconditioning threads?
(Does anyone know of a good one?)

 

[CBDMed]

Hahaha, ok, could someone please tell me what terms to search for?
Or is there a good URL?
Because both the search hits were for this thread! Haha.
Thank you!

 

[InTheShed]

Does this help?

How to Re-Amend Soil for Reuse in the Garden | Growing Organic

Have some pots that could use some nutrients after a few runs? Learn how to reamend your soil to support the next plants you use in the newly mixed soil.

growingorganic.com

 

[StoneOtter]

Maybe I should check for supersoil reconditioning threads?
(Does anyone know of a good one?)

The Rev Soil is what I recondition. I've used mine for years now. Here's the recipe.

 

[CBDMed]

Does this help?

How to Re-Amend Soil for Reuse in the Garden | Growing Organic

Have some pots that could use some nutrients after a few runs? Learn how to reamend your soil to support the next plants you use in the newly mixed soil.

growingorganic.com

That is very interesting, thank you, Shed!
I guess I am starting to understand CBD's question, if I can have my soil tested (because most of this soil is not truly spent--so before I go adding amendments willy-nilly to the soil, I really should test it first?

I will inquire as to what soil tests cost here, and how long they take.
(My guess is that the test will be really cheap, and take a r.e.a.l.l.y. l.o.n.g. t.i.m.e...........! Haha! So I have better get started!)

 

[CBDMed]

The Rev Soil is what I recondition. I've used mine for years now. Here's the recipe.

That's great, Stone! Thank you!
I hope I can get time to read the Rev someday!
However, I think I am getting CBD's point. No matter what formula I follow, if there is a balance to maintain, then I really need to have the soil tested first, so I can see what I've got before I go adding amendments willy-nilly, trying to hit a specific target.

I thought about separating the top 2/3 from the bottom 1/3, but now that I think more about it, I think I should just blend them both together and make supersoil (since supersoil is what I will be using in the SIPs).
Then I can buy a bag of that Roots Organic Veg soil for the Solo-Cup's worth. (I put it on the shopping list.)

Questions:
1. Are there home test kits for NPK? Or should I have the test professionally done?
2. Does microbial life do well in supersoil (hot soil)? Or not so much (and so I would be better off making straight soil, and adding spikes and layers?
3. Why is all the nitrogen on the bottom of the pot in the example above? Is it so the tap roots can lick up what they want, when they want it (similar to a spike)?
Thank you.

 

[CBDMed]

Oh, also, does anyone have a better way of getting the top branches to lay flat?
I am just repositioning stakes (without wanting to insert them into the soil, because I am concerned it might kill a lot of roots).
Thanks.