Emmie's Organic Garden Using Advanced Lighting Techniques

[SweetSue]

As an example of the many ways to approach this, my first grow was in a 1'x2' closet under CFLs, growing in LOS. My second was in a 4x4 tent in concert with the closet,with a combination of T8s, LEDs and CFLs, growing in LOS and Doc Bud's HB kit, running small pots and large pots side-by-side. My next run will be two 2'x2' tents and the tiny closet running both types of soil again but with large pots and using all available lights.

There are many, many ways to approach this hobby that we're obsessed with. I seem compelled to try them all.

 

[SweetSue]

Yay Em they look so crystally and lucious. Sue and I call that the spearmint leaf look because they look nice and thick and covered in sugar like the oldschool spearmint leaves jelly candies I love so much.

These are some of the sweetest spearmint leaves outside of Shiggity's tent. Beautiful pictures Emmie. I wish we had smell-a-vision.

 

[SweetSue]

I think I need to get some minions!

Pick me! Pick me! Dances wildly in the corner, frantically waving her hand.

Ahhhh..... Someday they're going to perfect those elusive transporter pads. *sigh*

 

[Radogast]

Thanks Enigma55, appreciate the comments. As far as cheap equipment, you get what you put into this hobby. There are deals out there if you look for them, like industrial magnetic 400w ballasts on ebay and amazon for really cheap... but, you get what you pay for. I have done cheap, and I don't recommend it. Cheap can get you in trouble when bad equipment catches fire or some other nonsense. Cheap breaks down, blows up and gets hot. Mostly though, cheap doesn't grow as well. It is best to wait to buy nice equipment as you can afford it. Good lights, good hoods, good air movement, all are directly linked to the quality and quantity of pot that you can get off of a single plant.

I would recommend finding a deal on a magnetic ballast and start off with a 400w HPS bulb for flower... for veg I actually prefer a cheap light... I don't think that many systems even twice as big can compete with the T5HO lights that I use... You need a 4' fixture to run them, but the Agromax PurPar bulbs are worth their weight in gold, IMHO. Then you have to consider your grow space and containing light and the smell. Unless you have carpentry skills, you will need a tent... my best one is made by Gorilla... it appears to be indestructible. Spend your money on good stuff... It lasts. Buy fans with 10 year warranties, it will pay off, and will be a better fan too. You can't get more out than you put into this hobby. Spend wisely.

That should give you a few things to think about ... welcome to the hobby Enigma55.

Thanks for mentioning the Agromax Pure PAR bulbs. I recently had 6 T5HO burn out so I am running with bulbs borrowed from the art room. These are now on my February shopping list.

I do in fact have carpentry skills and will be building a light box. I was planing kn doing somthing small for my first few grows so I don't think I would need a 4foot area. Anything smaller than that that would work. I'm sorry for the questions I'm just very curious about this field and want to learn as much as possible

I made a an 8x8' basement room out of OSB exterior wood sheathing. You can drill holes anywhere and it is sag resistant. If you are making something smaller, it will help to have 2 adjacent sides that can open. You may want access from more than one door.

I could go on, but this is Emilya's space

My best suggestion is that you start up a grow log. Show us what you are doing, ask for opinions and ideas. People love to help, and you can usually get a lot of good ideas that way. Good luck, and I will look forward to seeing a log of your progress as you figure all of this out.

I agree. I was all ready to talk construction ideas with you. Emilya was ready to talk lights. I also encourage you to start a grow journal and put a link in your signature. Get your own answers and more in your own space

 

[Tead]

My damn minions revolted a while back....

 

[Curly Beaver]

Are those 5 Gallon pots Emilya? I'm curious because I have #4 - 6 week old plants to up pot tomorrow. Not sure if I should go 2 or 5 gallon, there will be 7 plants in a 3.5x7' area, the other 3 are already in 2 gallon smart pots.

 

[Emilya Green]

Are those 5 Gallon pots Emilya? I'm curious because I have #4 - 6 week old plants to up pot tomorrow. Not sure if I should go 2 or 5 gallon, there will be 7 plants in a 3.5x7' area, the other 3 are already in 2 gallon smart pots.

yes, they are 5 gal buckets from the local hardware store. If I were to use them again I would put a lot more holes in them, not just in the bottom, but also randomly around the sides, to let more air in. I would definitely want to see what happens when a larger container is used, so I would recommend going to the 5 gal. I am going to 7gal for my next run, because I found 5 gal to be too small.

 

[ShiggityFlip]

yes, they are 5 gal buckets from the local hardware store. If I were to use them again I would put a lot more holes in them, not just in the bottom, but also randomly around the sides, to let more air in. I would definitely want to see what happens when a larger container is used, so I would recommend going to the 5 gal. I am going to 7gal for my next run, because I found 5 gal to be too small.

Go full on with ten gallons!

 

[Curly Beaver]

yes, they are 5 gal buckets from the local hardware store. If I were to use them again I would put a lot more holes in them, not just in the bottom, but also randomly around the sides, to let more air in. I would definitely want to see what happens when a larger container is used, so I would recommend going to the 5 gal. I am going to 7gal for my next run, because I found 5 gal to be too small.

I have some 7 gallon smart pots that I ordered for this summer but I don't think I'm ready to try them for my 2nd indoor grow
I think I better stick with the 5's

 

[Emilya Green]

I have some 7 gallon smart pots that I ordered for this summer but I don't think I'm ready to try them for my 2nd indoor grow
I think I better stick with the 5's

It does become a commitment! And Shig... would love to go to 10's, but I just don't think I have the room in a 4x4 for 6 10 gallon bags, nor do I want to veg for long enough to justify them. I also have not made enough super soil for a run that large. 7 seemed a good compromise this time, I bought a 10 pack of 7 gal smart pots.

 

[Curly Beaver]

It does become a commitment! And Shig... would love to go to 10's, but I just don't think I have the room in a 4x4 for 6 10 gallon bags, nor do I want to veg for long enough to justify them. I also have not made enough super soil for a run that large. 7 seemed a good compromise this time, I bought a 10 pack of 7 gal smart pots.

I kinda like those Smart Pots.

 

[Radogast]

Doc bud recommends 7 gallons for HiBrix.

My girls in 7 gallon Geopots grow larger than 5 gallon buckets and 5 gallon Geopot.
My girls in 7 gallon Geopots grow the same size as 10 gallon Smartpots.

Compared to square bottom Geopots, Smartpots are floppy, saggy and the dirt shifts around.
My Smartpots are also wider and shorter so take up a lot more ground space. If there is a choice, I prefer the taller pots.

 

[Major PITA]

Doc bud recommends 7 gallons for HiBrix.

My girls in 7 gallon Geopots grow larger than 5 gallon buckets and 5 gallon Geopot.
My girls in 7 gallon Geopots grow the same size as 10 gallon Smartpots.

Compared to square bottom Geopots, Smartpots are floppy, saggy and the dirt shifts around.
My Smartpots are also wider and shorter so take up a lot more ground space. If there is a choice, I prefer the taller pots.

What is the difference that makes you prefer the Geopots? I've seen both and they appear to be pretty much the same thing. I considered 10 gal pots and both companies' pots are 16" diameter and 12" tall. Do you feel the Geo's are made better or are made from heavier fabric? TY.

 

[Emilya Green]

And I ended up with a competitor... my 7 gallon smart pots are made by aurora innovations, and seem to be just a generic round bottom felt container 12" high and 13 7/8" in diameter. The company claims these containers are designed to break down after a couple of years of use.
I checked out the Geopot and SmartPot websites and it looks to me that they are all just about the same product, but I do like the geopot transplant container with velcro down the side. I might move to these for my 1 gallon stage.

 

[Radogast]

What is the difference that makes you prefer the Geopots? I've seen both and they appear to be pretty much the same thing. I considered 10 gal pots and both companies' pots are 16" diameter and 12" tall. Do you feel the Geo's are made better or are made from heavier fabric? TY.

10-gallon Smartpot vs 10-gallon Geopot

I went down to the room tonight and took some photos.

Notes on measurements:
Diameter was measured with a ruler on these actual pots at what looked like the widest point trying to avoid the plants.

Soil depth was measured with a ruler outside the pot and a good guess with help of my fingers.

Although soil is not measured in liquid gallons, almost noone in the USA knows what a dry weight gallon actually is. (It's smaller than both a peck and a gallon milk jug.) I calculated capacity with the formula pi x radius squared x soil depth in cubic inches then converted to US liquid gallons.


Smartpot Size and capacity - I measured the Smartpot as 17" in diameter and 8.5" high at the sides. The actual and optimum soil depth was 7.5" for a capacity of 7.8 (liquid) US Gallons. Assuming I could fill soil up to 8.5", this would be 8.35 (liquid) gallons.

Geopot Size and capacity - I measured the Geopot as 15" in diameter and 13" high at the sides. The soil depth was 10" but optimally would be 12" for a capacity of 9.2 (liquid) US Gallons. Assuming I could fill soil up to 13", this would be 9.9 (liquid) gallons.


Smartpot construction - The side piece raises up to form cut out handles above the usable rim of the pot. The side piece has a seam where it joins a circular bottom and another seam to finish up the side of the pot. The overall shape is smoothly cylindrical. The sides are stuffed tight below the soil line and baggy and floppy above.

Geopot construction - The side piece is folded and stitched at the top. Handles are seperate nylon straps that fall below the rim. The side piece overlaps itself and is double stitched twice. The base is square - I did not take note of how it joins to the sides. The overall shape is square morphing into cylindrical. The sides are slightly wrinkly and baggy below the soil line and smooth above.

I have been growing in theGeopot for about 12 months and the Smartpot for about 9 months.The Geopot shows evidence of water wicking up the sides not visible on the Smartpot.

Moving a Smartpot vs a Geopot

Picking up a Smartpot has a feel and effect on the soil similar to a plastic grocery bag. The bag has little structure. The soil gets pressed in at the top of the bag and settles lower into the bag when you move it. Setting the bag down shifts the pressure so the bottom presses up and top settles outward. Picking up and moving a Smartpot creates a gap around the inside of the rim and generally compacts the soil. Moved while holding dry soil, I have seen cracks form 2/3 the width of the Smartpot.

Picking up a Geopot has a feel and effect on the soil similar to a paper grocery bag. The bag has a structure that wants to stand up by itself. Unlike paper grocery bags, Geopot handles can hold a full weight.The soil gets lifted and set down with loss of pressure on the bottom when lifted and very little shifting inside. Any air gaps in the side walls remain air gaps. Setting the bag back down adds pressure to the bottom. The soil is not noticeably compacted and the inside of the rim does not form gaps.


Side by side detail of the soil line

The two labels sewn into the side seams. Note the round vs square bottoms.

 

[Emilya Green]

Excellent discussion on the various cloth grow bags, thank you.

Tonight I made the decision that it is time to end this grow and put these last two AK-47s into the dark. They are being slow to finish out completely and turn amber, and only this morning at the end of their photoperiod were we able to finally see 2-5% amber, and this is at day 67 of a 53-63 day plant. Whether it was due to the lighting, bad soil or the many other mistakes made on this grow, they just didn't act right at the end.

The tall AK is obviously done, and is going to give me some good weight. The shorter one is beautiful, but in over doing her like this, she has started to foxtail badly... it looks beautiful, but it is time to end this before she gets angry. Here are the pictures as she went into a 48 hour dark period, starting this morning. She will be harvested upon awakening on Friday and we will see if we can tell any difference caused by 48 hours of darkness.

 

[ShiggityFlip]

Looking great there Em. Let's see what happens!!

 

[electro gypsy]

indeed looking forward to the reports. in regards to the amber.. seems to be a lot of waiting from several members including myself recently. in my case i noticed about 5%-ish on the outside of the buds, but the inside seems to have closer to 10-15% upon drying. if you can remember to post i promise i'll take the pest strip out from where i put it in your car.

 

[earejay]

Hi Emmie. Complete newbie here. First off I wanted to thank you for documenting this journey. I have been reading for the last two nights like this is a novel. I will definitely will be using some ideas you shared. I agree with you regarding quality equipment and plan on taking it slowly while I research and learn more. What's your opinion on using LED's? I was thinking of getting some for veg and flowering. Also what size tents do you use? Thanks again and happy gardening!!

 

[Emilya Green]

Hi earejay, glad that you have enjoyed it.

I almost got involved with LEDs early on, but missed my chance. Considering that LED has a 15 year lifespan, it is my belief that if I got into it now, I would be wasting my money, because as newer and better lights came out, I would end up not getting full use out of my LEDs.
I am currently running old school with new school digital ballast and high tech HID superbulbs, and am patiently waiting for the next big thing. Just today I was looking at the new ceramic metal halide bulbs, using half the energy that a regular bulb would use. Right out there on the fringe is the new plasma bulb technology too, a very exciting tech using very little power, generating very little heat and putting out a massive amount of light. Currently those systems are running about $4k, but I am confident that before my new LED array was out of warranty, the new plasma tech will be viable. Already the ceramic systems are comparable, if you discount the fact that the new lights and ballasts are not compatable with anything else out there, and factor in half the energy cost.
For veg, I really like my T5HO Purple Agromax Pur Par bulbs.... for a florescent they cant be beat, and I would compare 200w of these to a 400w MH any day of the week. There are a lot of good light systems out there though, just not sure I would spend the extra money on LED at this point in the technology. I think for long term veg, I would seriously consider this new ceramic MH system, with the 1/2 energy cost and 8000 hour bulb life.
Regarding tents, I have 3 of them. I use a 4x4 for flowering, I have a 2x4 for veg, and I have a 1x2.5 for specialized drying and breeding projects (usually vacant)