SIP'ing Suzanne

[lootznbootz]

Happy New Year, Lootz! Thanks for your observations and cautions. It's important to know about the bad as well.

Happy New Year @Azimuth! Indeed, that's why I felt it was important to document it asap!

Yikes! That's not good. The FG's lay their eggs in, and like, a wettish topsoil so if you can let it dry out some that will help.

The topsoil does dry out and with the DE it you could tell when it dried but they crawl out from under the dried stuff when you agitate the bucket a bit. Yesterday there numbers were significantly higher since adding the DE and cleaning up the lower growth so it demanded i take a closer look

You could use an old towel or t-shirt or something to allow continued access down below. That duct tape makes you look kinda committed to your idea, though.

You know when you see something you dont like and you start coming up with solutions theres so many ideas flowing. My mind usually gravitates toward the more permanent solutions that solve the issue PERMANENTLY

Why do you say this? Were they not effective or you just didn't like the look? Any actual problems with the roots?

If they were slimy that would be an issue, but sounds like it's maybe just color?

It looked as if all the solution settled in the bottom and just dried up, I didn't like the look and it really made me wonder how much is being absorbed into the soil.

I say this because Suzanne does look a tad light in color like she wanted a feeding. Thats unusual for her until now.
The Roots Organic (especially the grow) just doesn't dissolve I'm sure that's great for the soil to be broken down by the roots and such but in the res it settles to the bottom and ALL of it is left in the bottom. There's no diluting of it happening in the res for it to be absorbed up.
Thats why I said there may be some nutes you could use in the res but it doesn't seem like Roots is good for this application.

Yea it seemed to be just the color I rinsed them off in the sink and they cleaned up a TAD and I saw some matter rinse out of them, so I don't know that there's anything off as of now, but we'll be watching closely from now on for sure.

Thanks @Azimuth you're a HUGE influence for this journal so I'm happy to have you following along and your input is always appreciated!

 

[Azimuth]

Thanks @Azimuth you're a HUGE influence for this journal so I'm happy to have you following along and your input is always appreciated!

Cheers, Lootz! And Happy New Year!

 

[AspenCultivator]

Happy New Year Lootz!

Why do you say this? Were they not effective or you just didn't like the look? Any actual problems with the roots?

I'm also curious on this. I have synthetic nutes right now and when I get something in my sips I need to use them before I switch to something else. I've been told feeding through the res on my particular synth nutes (Fox Farms) should be fine.

She lacks the controls of a float measure or even large enough fill tub to see into to measure water level.

Can you use a long dowel to get in there through the feed tube? I'd have to go back through your original journal but I thought the feed tube was straight down into the res, so you could use a long wooden stick to measure how much is in the res.

 

[lootznbootz]

Happy New Year Lootz!

Happy new year Aspen!

I'm also curious on this. I have synthetic nutes right now and when I get something in my sips I need to use them before I switch to something else. I've been told feeding through the res on my particular synth nutes (Fox Farms) should be fine.

I have never used foxfarm so I’m not sure of their consistency.
Other systems I’ve used were basically completely dissolved so I feel they would be able to be absorbed into the root zone with the water by the wicking foot.
but also your using the 1 bucket system so I don’t know that this would be so much of an issue in that type of system.
I do plan of feeding through the soil and only adding water to the red regardless tho

Can you use a long dowel to get in there through the feed tube? I'd have to go back through your original journal but I thought the feed tube was straight down into the res, so you could use a long wooden stick to measure how much is in the res.

This would be possible but honestly as small of a res as it is I don’t think it would matter much as it is drying pretty quickly and I’d imagine it’ll be drying daily if we make it into flower.

It may be doable but it also may be dry everyday anyway

 

[lootznbootz]

Sometimes drastic things call for drastic measures.
The war with the Tiny King and his army of annoying albeit non-threatening Fungus Gnats has pushed us to taking these drastic measures.

It pains me to say it, but I retired my DIY SIP until further modifications can be done.
As I stated before she was just a literal breeding ground for them, and it was to the point where I considered this to be a last effort in saving her as opposed to culling her altogether.

Here you can see the amount of humidity and moisture was in-between the buckets

I looked into her canopy and onto her main stem and they were just crawling up and down her without any care in the world. As if I didn't possess the capability to go Nuclear and kill them by any means!
I don't know what made me reach that boiling point so easily, but I was swift in my thinking and just acted (as nicely as I could not to hurt her).

She also started the lighten up on me all around and just seemed to be very hungry. I noticed this and ultimately made the decision to up pot her...

Taking her out of this was no easy task and I wished there was an easier less invasive way to have done it.
Luckily, I had help!

I COMPLETELY MISJUDGED THE POWER OF THE SIP!

I have never seen roots this massive on such a little plant. Idk maybe this is normal for a plant in a 2.5-gal bucket after 38 days from seed?!

There were more roots than I could have imagined, and the worst part was they had grown so deeply into the Vermiculite wicking foot and the screen that getting her out of the bucket and the foot pulled off and the screen pulled off was painful.
All I could do was rip them off as gently as I could and remind myself that "people cut the roots during up potting all the time"

I also put a massive amount of great white in the hole and all over the roots when I say massive, I should say I used the last of my bottle.

I placed her into the hole, filled in and packed the soil around her.
Honestly, she was already pretty much filling the 5-gal bucket with the insert placed in she barely fit comfortably with not much of a rim to top dress or mulch if I wanted. As she compacts with a bit of top watering, she will be fine. I pressed her down into the pot a bit as well and she's settled in pretty nicely.

I watered her in with R/o and Cal/mag at 6.3 through the top.
I haven't yet put any water into her reservoir but will most likely do that tonight before I leave the garden, to begin the wicking process of the soil.
I will need to continue keeping her res full same as normal because she didn't even flinch.
After switching her pot as brutal as it was, I gave her a slight trim of her foliage and also used the garden ties to pull her down and spread her out. She is incredibly bushy does not want to spread out much at all.

I credit this to being root bound even though she was in the SIP.
I will be watching her closely as we let the other plants catch up and prepare for flower.
I think she took this in stride and is actually appreciative of it from the continued growth she put on overnight.
But will be watching extra closely for intersex traits due to the extreme stress we put her under.

I adjusted her ties again to continue spreading her out and I can honestly say I don't think she realizes she was just transplanted
She is in the LUSH soil now so she should have a bit more food for another week at most. No way with the root structure we just witnessed and as little soil as we added around her root ball that it will last longer than that.

I sprayed the tent down with SNS203 very heavily and lowered the light intensity until they dried off.
This made a noticeable difference in the gnats on the plants today at lights on.
I will be spraying them again shortly.

It has been a crazy ride for Suzanne, but she seems to be taking it on the chin. Let's hope this new makeover does enough to get rid of her Paparazzi of fungus gnats once and for all.

I will post an update with pictures of the clones as well momentarily It isn't as eventful as this one but there is growth I'd like to document.

As always Thank you for your time and thank you for stopping by!

 

[lootznbootz]

The PBK 1 clones from Suzanne have been giving us mixed results.

I think the 1gal clones may have dried out a bit.
The yellowing continued a bit after transplanting on both of them.
I gave them a tad bit of water yesterday and it seemed to help them bounce back so today I gave them a bit more tonight.

Alternately the SIPs are looking very green and seem to have figured it out. Their reservoirs were empty, so I topped them off with Cal/mag water today to keep the moisture level in the soil constant.

I backed the light off pretty significantly and have them turned up to 100%.

The temp 77F and humidity 60% in the tent is constant. Same as the other tent. Managing humidity with both tents now at optimal humidity is far easier.
The heater is slowly losing its need, but I do think I will be putting it on the ACI plug and controller for this tent to help maintain nighttime temps a little better. It will also help to increase the lights on temps and since we can maintain higher % of humidity now we can maintain the proper VPD at these higher temps.

Their putting out a bit of green growth since that bit of water, so I gave them a little bit more to make sure they had enough to get them through.

The clone bucket is in the corner of this tent @AspenCultivator to give you an idea of how much space is in it and how well the 5Gal SIPS fit in it. I also have the humidifier to the right.

There's not much more going on they are establishing themselves and getting ready to take off. The SIPS seems to be continually moving along and haven't really slowed down at all since transplanting them all of which are good signs!


Thank you for your time and thanks for stopping by

 

[StoneOtter]

Next, Drill a screw into the PVC to hold it steady.

Now that you have that secured drill extra holes in the bottom for added drainage and air exchange

Then, secure both buckets together to bring everything together.

I used a piece of window screen and cut out a circle just bigger than my bucket

Then slide your net cup into the bottom with the screen being pushed into the hole.
This will stop and dirt from getting into your water as well as help prevent pest from getting in.

This part made a lot of sense to me as the root zone has an added level of exposure. Anything to make the life of a pest harder and less inviting I'm down for!

Then, I added some holes in the netcup that will be in our 1" air zone

Finally, black it out! I used black duct tape and electrical tape and just wrapped the bucket tight.
I tried to get every area I could cleanly apply the tape to get as much light blockage as possible.

In the end, you should end up with something like this...

I did apply more tape to the upper rims, so it is as blacked out as possible.

Love this build Loots!
You're SIP'n good!

 

[lootznbootz]

Love this build Loots!
You're SIP'n good!

Thank you @StoneOtter
Unfortunately with the fungus gnats we introduced early on with the bad bag of soil things were starting to spiral!
With a bit of modification tho this build is very solid and the results I showed after changing her pot speak for themselves!

I do want to attempt to finish a plant in the DIY SIP but I think it will be a much quicker
grow overall.
I started her from a rapid rooter straight to the SIP. I was expecting slowed growth or no growth while she transitioned but she took off like a rocket!

That is now a focus of this journal.
Trying to find out if starting in a water cloning method like a bubble cloner and rapid rooter will allow us to skip that transition phase.
So far as my clones started in the same way are showing us. I may be on to something here…. We’ll see

Thank you for catching up and tagging along!
You are another member I am honored to have in my journal (I’m honored that anybody reads my journal at all honestly )
But the work you’ve done on this site speaks for itself!
If anyone doesn’t understand why I'm giving him his flowers while he can appreciate them…. (Tho I highly doubt that to be the case).
Click that finished journals link in his signature
I don’t see too many members who joined as long ago as I did, but the consistency over that time period is remarkable!
So thank you for all you’ve done for the community and thank you for being here it is appreciated Sir.

 

[StoneOtter]

Trying to find out if starting in a water cloning method like a bubble cloner and rapid rooter will allow us to skip that transition phase.

Nice focus point!

Thanks for the kind words Loots! I have to chuckle a little though. Almost all of what I share is from things I've learned from other 420Mag members that have helped me!

 

[lootznbootz]

Nice focus point!

Thank you I have more Gro buckets on the way and I have a bunch more clones cut so there will be plenty to compare.

And to your response that you quoted to me
I truly feel like that’s what 420 is all about!
IDC how you learned the knowledge that you share, whether it’s from other members here or your like the twins @Azimuth & @Keffka and get it from…
Actually idk where they pull the stuff they pull sometimes

Point is you’ve gained the knowledge and been sharing it here on 420 for a while now! OG status for sure! And it’s appreciated.

 

[lootznbootz]

Wanted to give a brief update of Suzanne since her extreme makeover

She’s is bushing out nicely to the training
And seems to be doing perfectly fine.
She doesn’t seems to have noticed the makeover and I’ll have to check tonight but it seems like she is started drinking again? But it may just be the soil wicking.
More info is needed to determine.

But for now just a couple of pics to show she’s still going without fail.

Her color is starting to improve as well so it looks like we succeeded in transplanting a SIP… who knew

 

[Greenvein]

She’s is bushing out nicely to the training
And seems to be doing perfectly fine.
She doesn’t seems to have noticed the makeover and I’ll have to check tonight but it seems like she is started drinking again? But it may just be the soil wicking.
More info is needed to determine.

Glad she made it.. I have to be honest if I pulled them roots out and saw what you had pictured pulling the net cup off I would have been sweating she seems solid!

 

[lootznbootz]

Glad she made it.. I have to be honest if I pulled them roots out and saw what you had pictured pulling the net cup off I would have been sweating she seems solid!

I had to be the calm one in the room as the "experienced" grower of the group.
I talked my confidence up the entire time. I was also just in shock at what I was seeing.
I thought I got pictures of how many roots came off after taking the screen off.
I had a full handful and then some that had been ripped off in various places, from the net cup, the screen intertwined between and back.
It was very nerve racking to say the least, but it had to be done.

 

[Grand Daddy Black]

I had to be the calm one in the room as the "experienced" grower of the group.

 

[lootznbootz]

Wont be home until later tonight but just received a picture at lights on.

Looks like everything responded to the watering well

Suzanne seems to be thriving!

 

[lootznbootz]

OK so I can tell you all, all day long that Suzanne didn't miss a beat, but nothing beats picture proof!

Not only did she empty her res bone dry, but the growth above was just beautiful to see.
The structure she puts on and the want to bush out is amazing. She will stick around for a few grows while I try and maximize her every way possible.
After seeing her undergrowth come up, I'm getting the itch to throw up a net. Doing it this grow would've been a tall task in my first grow back.
I do feel comfortable now tho. Looking ahead to further grows I'm liking what I'm seeing from her and what we can make of her.

I filled her res and started to tie some stuff down. I started to do a quadline on her, but when her top branch started to split, I let off to allow her to heal and she ended up being too hard to tie down afterwards.
At this point I'm just spreading her out tying down the topmost stuff and letting nature take its course from there.
Some of the stuff that has come up to the top that's " too far to tie down" I just pinch and bend over where I want it, so everything stays even.

Judging by her size at transplant and now, I think it's safe to say we are on track to flip to flower VERY SOON!
The 2x4 flips when she does. Her clones will continue on their path toward flower in their own tent.
I can't stress enough how impressed I am that she brushed off the transplant without at least a day or so to recover.
It is almost as if she Needed the transplant. The 2.5-gal sip was not big enough for me to keep up with.
I don't want to say it was too small for her because I believe had I been able to rid the bucket of gnats and keep up with watering her 2 to 3 times a day then yea it would have been fine.

I was afraid of size with the 5-gal buckets, but I think they are perfect.
So perfect in fact I ordered 3 more
Our Army grows! Honestly, I expect for the entire garden to be sips by the next grow or 2 at least.
If I can pinpoint this water cloning to SIP and dial that into a perpetual cycle, I think we will have really accomplished something worth journaling.

So far on that front the SIP clones are looking constant and seem to be settled in.

As do the 1Gal clones albeit looking a little worse off with the older leaves they used to stay alive.
I wait to cut bad leaves until the plant discards them so I can monitor any progressing issues.
It seems they've began growing now as evident by the new unmarked green growth.

Since they all look to be out of the cloning phase and comfortable in their mediums now, I lowered the COBs a touch.
I haven't checked par levels on them but I'm sure I could go lower, and they would be able to take it.

*Side note
I just realized how much patience I am practicing now, and I feel the urge to just throw everything at my tent easing.
As I came to this realization, I thought about how much it is spilling over into my life in general. I am much calmer. I feel like I am looking at situations after taking a step back then deciding the best action before making any rash decisions.
Who needs therapy? Anyways sorry! back to the plant stuff.

Blah... blah bad leaves ... cloning phase blah... blah lowered cobs...
Oh, yea PAR Levels! Right!

Ok so tomorrow I am building a stand for the tents to rest on flat and secure while being off the cement.
That is why I didn't measure par levels because there may be a bit of movement of stuff anyway. Once it's all finally in I can start dialing that in a bit more.
For now, they all seem to be on track and aren't asking for more light. They have no stretching at all but that can also be expected when looking at their mother.

In the next few days or so I expect us to be able to tell if there is a noticeable difference in growth to this point.
We will document that when we make that determination.
Then watch closely to see the results soon after.
We know that the SIP is going to far outpace the 1-gal pots. But how quickly can they do it and is there a point in time where the SIPs are NOT MOVING.
That would mean there is still a transition period.
How quickly that period ends will be our next marker to watch for.

I do think that this will not be necessary, and the SIPS will not be slowed down.
Let's hope I'm right!

Thats about all I have for this update, I think? I always feel like I'm forgetting something. I'm sure Ill think of it as sooooon as I hit post reply

But until then Thank you for your time and as always Thank you for stopping by!

 

[StoneOtter]

Slaying the grow Loots!

 

[lootznbootz]

Slaying the grow Loots!

I’m just having fun honestly!
I wish I could be spending more time with the grow.
although that’s probably why things are going so well

 

[Weffalo]

All caught up Lootz, looking good mate!

 

[lootznbootz]

All caught up Lootz, looking good mate!

Thank you! Glad to have you following along!

It may be a quick read 'til now but it's about to be WILD in here I Promise you!