Emmie's Berry D'licious 2019 True Living Organic: No AACT, SCROG, COB, SuperSoil Production Grow & Seed Run

[Emilya Green]

I have all day meetings the rest of this week and I am going to be unable to be online as much as usual. Please know that I am not ignoring any of you, and I will try hard to catch up on the many threads and journals that i am watching, this evening when I return. Thank you for understanding. --Emmers

 

[Emilya Green]

If it's okay with you I would like to put 1 picture here in your journal so we can all talk about the power of the lights?
Considering where mine are running I just can't believe it was light stress. Just so happens my seedlings are 16 days old and so are about the same age.
Heck, I could even delete the pic part of the post after we talk about it

Yes, please do!

 

[fanleaf]

16 days old. While only in 18-6 they have been under over 42,700k lux since the first day above soil. I dug out my lux meter so it were apples to apples.

The only thing I can think is that since this is the only light these plants have known, they adjust to it and work with it. My thoughts are that a seedling outside in the wild, if out in open sunlight has no problems with lux/par far exceeding our lights and has no problem.
So this leaves a few questions...
Is 18hrs at 43k lux less DLI than 24hrs at 18k lux? Also, is it a matter of starting them off hard so they have nothing to get used to?

 

[Emilya Green]

Good questions @fanleaf and ones that we need to get to the bottom of. I came home for lunch to try my new Perfect Pipe that just arrived, and to catch up on a few of my messages. I think we are all going to be curious now what happens with my plants as I move to 18/6. It may not be more DLI, but it may be this reaction is telling us that 24/0 is actually stressful to the plants. We shall see... and as I look in this afternoon I can see that the plants are still reacting to the light, even at a lower flux level. Since I have never seen a reaction like this, I have to assume at this point that it is the 24/0 that is the cause. We should have another clue in a few days. Thank you for the input on this important matter!

 

[fanleaf]

Good questions @fanleaf and ones that we need to get to the bottom of. I came home for lunch to try my new Perfect Pipe that just arrived, and to catch up on a few of my messages. I think we are all going to be curious now what happens with my plants as I move to 18/6. It may not be more DLI, but it may be this reaction is telling us that 24/0 is actually stressful to the plants. We shall see... and as I look in this afternoon I can see that the plants are still reacting to the light, even at a lower flux level. Since I have never seen a reaction like this, I have to assume at this point that it is the 24/0 that is the cause. We should have another clue in a few days. Thank you for the input on this important matter!

I know Elaine Ingham talks often of the processes that take place during the day and the seperate processes that happen at night.
With the limited experience and reading that I have done, I believe that there is a point that when reached the bottom cannot keep up with processes that the top is asking of it and or vice versa.
While I guess our plants can run the top and bottom sugar converting processes at the same time I truly believe the bottom half needs time to catch up (supply and demand). Hope that all makes sense...I'm typing while sitting in my truck lol

 

[Emilya Green]

I have been convinced that 24/0 is just too much when pushing the plants this hard. As tough as these weeds are, they are not super beings, and apparently they can only take so much. Seeing just how powerful these lights can be is somewhat sobering and we are learning here some of the fine points of managing such power. I have set up the timer and starting at midnight tonight the plants will get their first 6 hour dark period.
Despite all of this, the plants are chugging along at a rapid pace. All plants were consistently near 2ml/hr today despite the lower wattage of the lights. Blackie was the first to be watered early this morning and she got water with calmag since I am already seeing the first signs of magnesium deficiency under these bright lights and with filtered water.



This evening "T"apetta reached the 75ml level and got the same Water/Calmag mix, and she firmly established a 44 hour wet/dry window. We will get one more watering, and then it will be time to uppot this one, with the others following close behind. T also rose up her 5th node far enough that I could get my topping scissors on it, and off went its head. I find it to be outstanding that I am already topping on day 13!



Red will need to be topped tomorrow too, and she is within hours of needing to be watered again, probably in the morning after the dark cycle.

Here is the room shot... by the weekend we are going to start seeing some smart pots in these positions.

 

[fanleaf]

Your pictures couldn't be better. Now I must play with my WB on my phone....
BTW Em, I just went to edit my pic post to get my horrible looking pictures (compared to yours) off your journal and it won't let me. Maybe I can ask a mod...

 

[TysonOG]

I think you're right Emilya. Under relatively weak lighting they could probably go the full 24. But when we push them with high powered lighting, 24 hrs is just too much. Even in places that have ridiculously long daytimes, its not full strength sunlight the entire time.

 

[Emilya Green]

Your pictures couldn't be better. Now I must play with my WB on my phone....
BTW Em, I just went to edit my pic post to get my horrible looking pictures (compared to yours) off your journal and it won't let me. Maybe I can ask a mod...

no worries my friend... I am not stressed in the very least about your pictures... don't worry about it... It helped to solve the mystery.

 

[Emilya Green]

I think you're right Emilya. Under relatively weak lighting they could probably go the full 24. But when we push them with high powered lighting, 24 hrs is just too much. Even in places that have ridiculously long daytimes, its not full strength sunlight the entire time.

The lights just came back on a few minutes ago and a quick look in shows me that water use was way down during the dark period and I see no magical difference in the plants from 6 hours ago... all appearances are that the plants actually rested during the dark. It could be too that this sudden change in light pattern has befuddled the plants this first time but I am betting that out of our sight the roots went wild overnight. Water usage during the day is going to be very interesting to track. I am a little concerned for Red who is very close to running out of water, so I will be checking on her when I come home for lunch again today and I will be topping her as soon as #5 rises up enough that I can get to it.

 

[Emilya Green]

Many of you probably guessed this, but the plants were not resting last night, they were building roots. While it looked like they were loafing during the dark hours, today, water use tripled! Our leader, the just topped (and beautiful) Tapeta used an average of 3.5ml/hr since lights on this morning. All of the top 3 are over 3ml/hr now and Blackie and Red will soon need their topping too.

The two little ones, runt and former runt M&M also doubled their water use from last night to right near 2ml/hr. The now runt, probably reacting to the personal slight that I never gave her a name, is starting to accelerate too and both of them are still on about a 4 day wet/dry cycle, but I am confident that with the next watering this will change, as it did for the others at this stage.

So far, none of the new growth is showing any signs of stress from the lights or any other cause. After we get a few nights in to establish the 18/6 pattern, I may start raising up the LUX again.
If we go by the odds, we have 3 fast plants and two slower ones... could this be our 3 boys and 2 girls? Time will tell. Anytime after the 5th node we should start seeing some signs...

 

[irie lion]

Hey Emy, your plants are looking great and growing quickly I’ve always run 24/0 on veg and not had issues with it - my plants grow well without rest. I’m thinking your light intensity was just too high for the young leaves.

 

[Emilya Green]

Hey Emy, your plants are looking great and growing quickly I’ve always run 24/0 on veg and not had issues with it - my plants grow well without rest. I’m thinking your light intensity was just too high for the young leaves.

Thanks Irie! Yes, I am convinced it is the strength of the lights allowing me to run at the upper edge of what can be tolerated, and at 24/0 it seems to be more than the plant can adapt to. After the 2nd night with 6 hours of darkness I am starting to notice some of the ridging going down, although some of this is going to be permanent.

Water use went to a steady water use overnight in all of the plants, with the oldest still near 3ml/hr, the next 2 just over 2ml/hr and the little ones just over 1ml/hr. The small ones needed to be watered this morning, and got the water/calmag mix. Red got her topping. Blackie may be tonight.

I am off to training class... have a great day everyone!

 

[Emilya Green]

Veg, Day 15

We were a good class and I was able to head home early, even more highly trained than ever before.

Several things are happening in the garden today. First, our top plant, T, increased its water use to heights not seen yet in this grow, at a robust 4.2 ml/hr. This one needed watering again today, and on this cycle she needed watering in 46 hours, still not where I want her to be before transplant. This watering will get her over that hurdle though, as Recharge was on the menu again, the first strong dose, and she will get more as I move her soon into the 1 gallon GeoPot.
All plants showed a dramatic increase in water usage as the lights hit them today and Blackie also needed water, logging in her first 57 hour cycle. Blackie also got the Recharge since she was able to get the calmag last time, whereas the young plants that were watered this morning got their first dosage of calmag, catching up the room. It was close, but enough of node 5 had finally risen up for Blackie, and she was also topped. 3/5 are now at this stage, with the smaller ones catching up fast.

 

[HugePeckerhead]

I only let the growth tip grow up to the point where I can easily get in with my scissors and make the chop. It may look like this slows down the plant temporarily, but if you look the next day at the accelerated growth of all the lower nodes as a result, it can be seen that topping does not actually stun the plant.
I would not recommend doing anything to the plant after flipping the lights. Some people defoliate even up to the end of stretch and I do not agree with that practices or what you are proposing. Flipping causes fundamental changes in the plant and so does topping. It makes no sense to me to do both at the same time so as to confuse and possibly stun the plant. Top, and wait 3 days or so before doing anything else. Defoliate a week before the flip so the plant can recover first. Topping is so as to cause accelerated growth in the lower nodes, it isnt just to make the plant shorter. Do that, and then wait a week to see what happens... don't just rush into the next process.
I actually think that topping during stretch would double the stretch motivation in the lower nodes and I think stretch would get worse, not better, since you would now have two biological processes in action telling the plant to stretch.

Happy I read this. I was wondering if I should trim a few fan leaves to allow light better to mid sites. I'm on day 4 since flipping. Just gonna let it do it's thing from now on.

 

[Emilya Green]

Happy I read this. I was wondering if I should trim a few fan leaves to allow light better to mid sites. I'm on day 4 since flipping. Just gonna let it do it's thing from now on.

Yes, but don't go crazy with this since you are almost in flower... it really should have happened before the flip, but its hard to project what happens with the stretch. Also consider before you chop that with the stretch, the problem you are trying to fix may already be taken care of by the plant.

 

[HugePeckerhead]

Yes, but don't go crazy with this since you are almost in flower... it really should have happened before the flip, but its hard to project what happens with the stretch. Also consider before you chop that with the stretch, the problem you are trying to fix may already be taken care of by the plant.

Yea I'm not gonna mess with her now. She's gonna be my first ever harvest.

 

[Old Salt]

irst, our top plant, T, increased its water use to heights not seen yet in this grow, at a robust 4.2 ml/hr.

That's quite a lot of water for a plant in a solo cup. A use of 4.2 ml/hr doesn't seem like much until you convert it into something a little more intuitive. That's coming up on 1/2 a cup per day!

 

[Emilya Green]

That's quite a lot of water for a plant in a solo cup. A use of 4.2 ml/hr doesn't seem like much until you convert it into something a little more intuitive. That's coming up on 1/2 a cup per day!

How much water does soil hold?

I got curious last night as I watered my babies in their solo/beer cups, and after slowly watering to the point of run off, I weighed my cup. I was shocked to learn that the previous light as a feather cup now weighed almost a pound, or 418 grams to be exact. I was shocked, so I decided to...

www.420magazine.com

That's a very important point @Old Salt because if you think about what this plant is about to do, ie, empty the entire cup in 24 hours, that is a lot of water that flows up out of the soil and into our plants. It is very good for us to wrap our heads around that concept so we can start to imagine a plant that can take a gallon or more from us each day.

 

[Emilya Green]

Let's take this to another level. Red is the only one in the room that has not been watered yet today, and I really would consider it to be a success to at least once in veg have synced up every plant in the room.

I weighed her just now to see where she was at in relation to the reference cup of mulch topped drying supersoil and she has 94 measured ml/water left in the container. I have been letting them get down to 75ml, when they feel light as a feather and I can just see the start of wilt in the cotyledons, so I have roughly 20ml to go before watering time.

I had an 8hr span since last weighing in, so it was easy to determine that right now in the light she is pulling up 3.125ml/hr, and will likely continue to do so until lights out. At the projected rate, she will get to the desired dry point at 2am, 2 hours after lights out. Is it close enough to just water her right before lights out? Absolutely, and I bet that water take up accelerates at the end of the water cycle anyway. This one will be watered before bed and the whole room will for the moment be in sync.

Nutrition wise, I am still seeing signs of magnesium deficiency in the larger plants and starting to see the first signs of root stress in the cotyledons on the larger plants, where they are starting to be cannibalized for their goodness, and of course in the case of the magnesium, the first little canaries in the gold mine.