Icemud's Organic SCROG! Grow 3.0

[Icemud]

Im in...

Glad to have ya aboard!!

 

[Doc Bud]

Hey Ice! I've been thinking about your grow and your OG.

I always struggle with OG getting yellow. As far as I'm concerned, the fan leaves yellow and die off at about week 4 with many strains, especially the OG.

I've always had trouble getting enough magnesium into them....until I started mineralizing the soil.

So, after thinking about your situation a bit I've come to the following conclusions:

1.)Your plant is a hog. OG is a hog.
2.)Your soil is the same as the other pots, pH of the soil is just fine. If anything, it tends to the acidic, according to el-cheapo soil pH meter. That makes it pretty hard to get "lockout."
3.)your leaves seem to say Sulfur and Nitrogen def....possibly with a bit of Mag def as an overlay.

I've gone over your feeding, teas, etc. Here's my hunch:

It needs food! The teas you make are loaded with sugar, which the microbes are keying on for food. We want them to be dialed in to organic matter, minerals, etc....too much sugar changes the culture in the soil life.

I suggest simplifying the feeding for that plant a bit:

1.)re-mineralize minus the Soft Rock PHosphate. That will raise soil pH just a bit.
2.)water with a weak tea solution, minus all the carbs.
3.)give it one dose of salt ferts, mainly calcium nitrate, which won't hurt soil biology.
5.)follow up salt ferts a week later with something like Biosol forte, alfalfa meal, or chicken manure....something with a ready source of nitrogen that won't break down.

We KNOW that you have more than enough of everything in the soil.
We also KNOW that the pH is well within range
We KNOW that the microbes will feed the plant as long as the plant is feeding the microbes.

Given all that, weighing it, analyzing it, and using good old deductive reasoning, you need to feed that soil with more organic matter and less sugar. The sugar the microbes get is supposed to come from the roots. The molasses/carb thing is good to do once in a while, but too much messes up the teas and cultures.

I think once you get the plant back on track it's going to move along like it never missed a beat.

 

[Icemud]

Hey Ice! I've been thinking about your grow and your OG.

I always struggle with OG getting yellow. As far as I'm concerned, the fan leaves yellow and die off at about week 4 with many strains, especially the OG.

I've always had trouble getting enough magnesium into them....until I started mineralizing the soil.

So, after thinking about your situation a bit I've come to the following conclusions:

1.)Your plant is a hog. OG is a hog.
2.)Your soil is the same as the other pots, pH of the soil is just fine. If anything, it tends to the acidic, according to el-cheapo soil pH meter. That makes it pretty hard to get "lockout."
3.)your leaves seem to say Sulfur and Nitrogen def....possibly with a bit of Mag def as an overlay.

I've gone over your feeding, teas, etc. Here's my hunch:

It needs food! The teas you make are loaded with sugar, which the microbes are keying on for food. We want them to be dialed in to organic matter, minerals, etc....too much sugar changes the culture in the soil life.

I suggest simplifying the feeding for that plant a bit:

1.)re-mineralize minus the Soft Rock PHosphate. That will raise soil pH just a bit.
2.)water with a weak tea solution, minus all the carbs.
3.)give it one dose of salt ferts, mainly calcium nitrate, which won't hurt soil biology.
5.)follow up salt ferts a week later with something like Biosol forte, alfalfa meal, or chicken manure....something with a ready source of nitrogen that won't break down.

We KNOW that you have more than enough of everything in the soil.
We also KNOW that the pH is well within range
We KNOW that the microbes will feed the plant as long as the plant is feeding the microbes.

Given all that, weighing it, analyzing it, and using good old deductive reasoning, you need to feed that soil with more organic matter and less sugar. The sugar the microbes get is supposed to come from the roots. The molasses/carb thing is good to do once in a while, but too much messes up the teas and cultures.

I think once you get the plant back on track it's going to move along like it never missed a beat.

I very much appreciate your analysis of my silverback og issue... I think your spot on with the idea that it used up the N and S. I have been giving her slight amounts of N every feeding but I think I am going to have to step up the levels through the next few weeks until I get closer to harvest. I think from here on out it will be a rotation of a full earthjuice feeding, followed up with the next being a compost tea with amendments. I did a soil remineralization just about a week ago so my calcium, sulfur and phosphorus levels should be ok for the next 2-3 weeks but definitely can see that I need much more N as well as possibly Mg.

She already seems to be getting slightly better so I hope the additional N is adding up...

All of this makes perfect sense on an article I read a while back where it says that most guano's usually are available to the plant from 1-3 months, now with the super energized soil we are running I believe that it is probably getting chewed up faster than 3 months...which would make perfect sense along with the timing of the yellowing leaves. I guess on future grows I will have to adjust my feeding schedule near week 2 of flowering and allow much heavier doses of full nutrient spectrum.

Here is some info copied from a pdf from Colorado state U.

Plant by-products

Alfalfa meal or pellets
Alfalfa meal or pellets are often used as animal feed. Primarily they are used to
increase organic matter in the soil but do offer nutrients and a high availability of
trace minerals. They contain trianconatol, a natural fatty-acid growth stimulant.
Alfalfa meal or pellets
Typical NPK analysis 2-1-2
Release time 1-4 months
Pros Available at feed stores
Cons May contain seeds
Application Till in 2-5 pounds per 100 square feet


234-3
Corn gluten meal
Corn gluten meal materials have a high percentage of nitrogen. It carries a
warning to allow 1 to 4 months of decomposition in the soil prior to seeding.
Allelopathic properties will inhibit the germination of seeds. However, there is no
danger to established or transplanted plants. This product is also marketed as a
pre-emergent weed control for annual grasses in bluegrass lawns.
Corn gluten meal
Typical NPK analysis 9-0-0
Release time 1-4 months
Pros Very high nitrogen
Cons Germination inhibitor, some are GMOs
Application Till in 20-40 pounds per 1000 square feet



Cottonseed meal
Cottonseed meal is a rich source of nitrogen. Buyers should be aware that many
pesticides are applied to cotton crops and residues tend to remain in the seeds.
Pesticide-free cottonseed meal is available.
Cottonseed meal
Typical NPK analysis 6-0.4-1.5
Release time 1-4 months
Pros High nitrogen
Cons Pesticide residues, most are GMOs
Application Till in 10 pounds per 100 square feet



Soybean Meal
Used primarily as an animal feed product. Available bagged at many feed stores.
Soybean meal
Typical NPK analysis 7-2-1
Release time 1-4 months
Pros High nitrogen, available at feed stores
Cons Almost half of the conventionally grown soy is
GMO
Application 8 pounds per 100 square feet


Animal by-products


Bat guano – high N
Bat guano (feces) harvested from caves is powdered. It can be applied directly to
the soil or made into a tea and applied as a foliar spray or injected into an irrigation
system.
234-4
Bat guano – high N
Typical NPK analysis 10-3-1
Release time 4+ months
Pros Stimulates soil microbes
Cons Cost
Application Till in 5 pounds per 100 square feet or as a tea at
3 teaspoons per gallon of water


Bat guano – high P
See the description above. Difference is that it is processed for high phosphorus
content.
Bat guano – high P
Typical NPK analysis 3-10-1
Release time 4+ months
Pros Stimulates soil microbes
Cons Cost
Application Till in 5 pounds per 100 square feet or as tea at 3
teaspoons per gallon of water


Blood meal
Blood meal, made from dried slaughterhouse waste, is one of the highest nonsynthetic
sources of nitrogen. If over-applied it can burn plants with excessive
ammonia.
Blood meal
Typical NPK analysis 12-0-0
Release time 1–4 months
Pros Available at feed stores
Cons Can burn. Expensive at garden centers
Application Till in 5–10 pounds per 100 square feet


Bone meal
A well-known source of phosphorus, bone meal is steam processed and widely
available at feed stores and in garden centers. If purchased at feed stores, P is
expressed on the label as elemental phosphorus and is 2.3 times higher than
numbers shown on garden center labels for phosphate (i.e. – 12% phosphate is the
same as 27% phosphorus). However, recent CSU research has shown that P
from bone meal is only available to plants in soils that have a pH below 7.0.
Bone meal
Typical NPK analysis 3-15-0
Release time 1–4 months
Pros Highly plant available form of phosphorus
Cons Cost
Application Till in 10 pounds per 100 square feet
234-5


Feather meal
Sourced from poultry slaughter, feather meal has fairly high nitrogen levels but is
slow to release the N.
Feather meal
Typical NPK analysis N varies 7 – 12% on process
Release time 4+ months
Pros Long term fertilizer
Cons Cost versus speed of N release
Application Till in 2.5-5 pounds per 100 square feet


Fish emulsion
Infamous for its foul smell, emulsions are soluble, liquid fertilizers that have been
heat and acid processed from fish waste.
Fish emulsion
Typical NPK analysis 5-2-2
Release time 1 – 4 months
Pros Adds needed micronutrients
Cons Some have foul smell
Application Mix 6 tablespoons per gallon of water


Enzymatically digested hydrolyzed liquid fish
Enzymatically digested hydrolyzed liquid fish may be using enzymes to digest the
nutrients from fish wastes instead of using heat and acids. This retains more of the
proteins, enzymes, vitamins and micronutrients than emulsions.
Enzymatically digested hydrolyzed liquid fish
Typical NPK analysis 4-2-2
Release time 1 – 4 months
Pros More nutrients than emulsions
Cons More expensive than emulsions
Application Mix 5 tablespoons per gallon of water


Fish meal
Fish meal is ground and heat dried fish waste.
Fish meal
Typical NPK analysis 10-6-2
Release time 1 – 4 months
Pros N and P source
Cons Heat processed
Application Till in 5-10 pounds per 100 square feet
234-6


Fish powder
Fish power is dried with heat and turned into water-soluble powder. It is a high
source of nitrogen. Many can be mixed into solution and injected into an irrigation
system.
Fish powder
Typical NPK analysis 12-0.25-1
Release time Immediate to 1 month
Pros Adds micro-nutrients
Cons Heat processed
Application Till in 1-2 oz. Per 100 square feet OR Mix at 1
tablespoon per gallon of water


Compost, manure, and biosolid based products

For information on biosolids, worm casting, manure, and compost, refer to the
following CMG GardenNotes:
#241, Soil Amendments
#242, Using Manure in the Home Garden
#243, Using Compost in the Home Garden


Rock powders

Rock powders relevant for use in Colorado soils are those that supply phosphorus.
Those that serve as a potassium source (greensand, feldspar, potassium sulfate,
biotite, etc.) are not necessary as Colorado soils are naturally high in potassium.
Similarly, it is not necessary to add calcium (gypsum, lime, etc.) due to naturally
high calcium levels in Colorado soils and arid conditions.

If you are making annual applications of manure and/or compost to your garden to
add nitrogen, you should have sufficient levels of phosphorus in your soil. If you
are applying manure or compost to your garden based on P needs, you might have
an excess N supply. Excess N can lead to poor flower/fruit development and
increases water pollution potential from N leaching from the soil.

Generally, plant or animal sources are the best value for phosphorus in the home
garden. Recent CSU research results concluded that no rock P (regardless of
mesh size) is available for plant use unless the soil pH is below 7.0.


Colloidal phosphate – a.k.a. soft rock phosphate
This product is made by surrounding clay particles with natural phosphate. Total
phosphate is about 20% while available phosphate is about 2-3%. This is why you
can apply large amounts of colloidal phosphate, as it will release slowly over the
years (usually more available the second year than the first). For home gardeners
the cost/return is adequate to apply colloidal phosphate at rates to supply
phosphorus for this season’s crops. This product also adds micronutrients to soil.


234-7
Micronized (passing through 1000 mesh screen [1000 wires per square inch])
sources may be more available than regular soft rock grinds in soils with a pH
below 7.0.



Seaweed
Kelp is the most common form and is valued not for its macronutrient (N, P, and
K) contributions but for micronutrients, trace minerals, amino acids and vitamins
plus growth hormones that stimulate plant cell division.
Kelp is often mixed with fish products to enhance growth.
Three processes are available: extracts (as kelp meal or powder), cold-processed
(usually liquid) and enzymatically digested (liquid). Ranked in quality of content
and plant availability they are (highest to lowest) 1) enzymatically digested, 2)
cold-processed and 3) extracts.



Kelp meal
Kelp meal, a product of the ocean, is used primarily as a trace mineral source. It is
often combined with fish meal to add N-P-K value.
Kelp meal
Typical NPK analysis negligible
Release time 4+ months
Pros Adds micronutrients
Cons Insignificant NPK value
Application Till in 1 pound per 100 square feet


Kelp powder
Kelp powder is similar to kelp meal but ground fine enough to put into solution
and applied as a foliar spray or injected into an irrigation system.
Kelp powder
Typical NPK analysis 1-0-4
Release time Immediate – 1 month
Pros Adds micronutrients
Cons Insignificant NPK value
Application Mix ¼ to ½ teaspoon/gallon of water


Liquid kelp
Usually cold processed, liquid kelp will have higher levels of growth hormones
than extracts. Some may also be enzymatically digested, making the growth
hormones even more available to the plants.
234-8
Liquid kelp
Typical NPK analysis Negligible
Release time Immediate – 1 month
Pros Adds micronutrients plus helps plant
with stress
Cons Insignificant NPK value
Application Mix 1 – 2 TBS/gal of water for foliar or
Mix at ¼ - 1¼ tsp/gal/100 ft2 and inject
into an irrigation system


Additional Information – CMG GardenNotes on Soils, Fertilizers and Soil Amendments:
#211 Introduction to Soils #231 Plant Nutrition
#212 The Living Soil #232 Understanding Fertilizers
#213 Managing Soil Tilth #233 Calculating Fertilizer Rates
#214 Estimating Soil Texture #234 Organic Fertilizers
#215 Soil Compaction #241 Soil Amendments
#218 Earthworms #242 Using Manure
#219 Soil Drainage # 243 Using Compost
#221 Soil Test #244 Cover Crops and Green Manure Crops
#222 Soil pH #245 Mulching with Wood/Bark Chips, Grass
#223 Iron Chlorosis Clippings and Rock
#224 Saline Soils #251 Asking Effective Questions About Soils
Authors: Adrian Card, David Whiting, and Carl Wilson (Colorado State University Extension) and Jean
Reeder, Ph.D., (USDA-ARS, retired)
o Colorado Master Gardener GardenNotes are available online at Colorado Master Gardener Program, Colorado State University Extension.
o Colorado Master Gardener training is made possible, in part, by a grant from the Colorado Garden Show, Inc.
o Colorado State University, U.S. Department of Agriculture and Colorado counties cooperating.
o Extension programs are available to all without discrimination.
o No endorsement of products mentioned is intended nor is criticism implied of
products not mentioned.
o Copyright 2002-2008. Colorado State University Extension. All Rights Reserved.
CMG GardenNotes may be reproduced, without change or additions, for nonprofit

 

[Buckshot]

Is that a BANANA!!!!!!




Banana? What do you mean.. The strain is Blackberry Kush, and no banana's, she's all female

just to the left of the leaf stem in the middle of the photo ... that looks like a male part to me but I can not see it clearly

 

[Icemud]

just to the left of the leaf stem in the middle of the photo ... that looks like a male part to me but I can not see it clearly

Yeah its just pistils and new leaf growth, no banana's

 

[Buckshot]

Yeah its just pistils and new leaf growth, no banana's

cool beans. Looking at an image is how I saw the start of bud rot on one of my plants so I always look close, sorry for the fire drill

 

[GreenThumb1]

Hey Icemud,
Between the University Hills and the Holy Grail, which was the stinkier, stickier, true pine smelling OG? Looking to grab some cuts from SCDG

 

[Icemud]

Hey Icemud,
Between the University Hills and the Holy Grail, which was the stinkier, stickier, true pine smelling OG? Looking to grab some cuts from SCDG

The university Hills og was amazing!!! one of the stinkyiest and heaviest og's I have had... The Holy Grail OG from SCDG has hermie traits I believe so I wouldn't recommend that cut...last run both of my HG OG's hermied as well as a cut that I gave to a norcal grower buddie... I would stray away from the Holy grail og... Also there OG 101 is really really dank!! but I would go with the University Hills OG...

Also there chemband is a phenomenal plant!!! very very strong high and heavy yeilding.

 

[Vapedogg223]

Here is the photo's for today...Enjoy...Don't forget to check out the video above either

Full Tent views..

Blackberry Kush

Silverback OG

Platinum Bubba

Holy Grail OG

Sour Bubble

Simply awesome bro!

I didn't realize I had been away so long...they look beautiful though my friend!

 

[Greenhouse250]

Wow so many tops! I could look at your set up all day. In the past have you ever had to deal with bud rot? Just curious cause its f'n packed in there!

 

[Icemud]

Thanks Vape!!! glad to have ya back around!!! great job in the Nug of the month contest as well...looks like you got that one by a landslide

Thanks whitehouse...never had a problem with bud mold yet, but I know growing can though loops all the time, so hopefully I will keep that slate clean I try to keep the humidity around 50% for flowering so shouldn't have an issue, but we will see

 

[Icemud]

Today is day 27 of flowering..

Yesterday I started my next feeding brewing. Since I believe that my OG is needing more N I decided I am going to give 1 full earthjuice feeding to the girls and see how they react. I have always had great luck with earthjuice on my past grows and have been using it very sparingly throughout this grow, but this will be there full fledged feeding...

5 gallons of r/o water

EJ grow 130ml
EJ bloom 75ml
EJ Micro 40ml
EJ Catalyst 45ml
EJ Meta K 30ml

I also added advanced nutrients carboload..

Nothing else was added to this tea..

Other than that the ladies are looking great, minus my silverback og which still is showing a lot of discoloration, so hopefully after this next feeding she will bounce back to normal color.

 

[Icemud]

Here are the photo's for day 27 flowering (end of week 4, from flip)

Full Tent views

Cleaned up under the canopy the other day..

Earthjuice Tea bubbling away... (takes about 2 days for ph to go from 3.9 to around 6.4..)

Sour Bubble

Holy Grail OG

Platinum Bubba Kush

Silverback OG

Blackberry Kush

 

[St1ckyfingers]

Nice! I'm impressed. I can't wait to hear the smoke reports and yield on these babies.

I was just curious about your opinions on the hot shot pest strips, I'm using them.. but unsure if it leaves anything behind on the buds? I have had amazing results with one. Had a spider mites outbreak, a hotshot pest strip plus a ice cold insecticidal soap spray 1x a day for a week finished them off for the last 7 weeks of the grow. They all seemed dead within the first 3 days. Eggs never went far.

 

[Heirloom]

Looking good!

 

[hodder356]

That is the best scrog ive seen ever.....mmmmmmmm, way to go man!!

 

[Icemud]

Damn!!!!! I am so mad right now!!!! I just was poking around my tent and realized that both of my platinum bubba's are covered in Powdery Mildew below the top canopy, I mean covered!!!! This also was on my sour bubble as well but has not really touched the other 3 strains... so just the ones with the PM in the beginning... Man I swear!!! I am so frustrated with this shiz!!! I thought it was completely gone and hasn't showed at all in plain view for a while, but I also haven't defoliated and things were getting a bit crowded so that is a big reason I believe for the bad PM attacK!!!

I cut off all plant parts that were covered, buds, leaves and stems, and cut off a lot of the foliage down 4 nodes from the cola's to help airflow better. Once I went over the whole tent and removed a plastic grocery bag full of leaves I checked to see any other areas it spread to and luckilly it is only the 2 platinum bubba's and the sour bubble... hmm what to do...

Well I decided F'it and made a mixture of milk, water, baking soda, garlic powder and cinnomen and sprayed the living ish out of the buds, leaves, and everywhere I could get I sprayed... at this point if I don't stop the spread, my harvest will be garbage so I had to spray them, and most likely will have to wash the buds before harvest or possibly water cure if it gets worse.... I am soo frustrated, I have been doing everything right, cleaning the tent, taking preventitive measures and still PM.. I am starting to think that the clones may have been infected from the start because otherwise I have no clue how they got infected.....

My rh has been below 55% for most of flowering and at night I keep my heat on and fans going to make sure they get plenty of dry air circulation, but still gettting the PM... I should have just pulled these plants at the first sign of it and saved the room for my others to grow larger.... lesson learned... I guess high brix or not, PM likes certain strains and once infected, will come back...

UUUUHHHHGGGG!!!!

 

[Curso]

Man what a drag Ice...

 

[Icemud]

Man what a drag Ice...

Yeah I am extremely frustrated with this PM!!! I am hoping that I can at least keep it away for the remainder of the grow but we will see, it was really bad on my back middle platinum bubba so I am going to stay vigilant and see what happens...

If I have to I might just chop off everything below the main cola's to increase airflow and lesson the area's that PM can form, but we will see.

 

[Icemud]

Well I have a spray bottle today ready to go as well as I am going to remove more leaves when the lights come back on today. In my spray bottle I mixed 1L of R/O water with a tbsp of each: garlic powder, cinnamon, (both known antifungals), baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) as well as I added the herbal supplement andrographis which is also a heavy antifungal. I also will be adding potassium silicate to the spray to help raise PH and toughen the plants cell walls as well as adding H2O2 to kill off any other spores.. I also am going to wash down the tent walls and everything today with a bleach water solution and hopefully I will be able to control the spread somewhat.

Last night I also raised the temperature of the tent to +90F for about a 45 minute period. I was reading that temps over 90F will help kill PM so I figured what the heck... If I do nothing I lose my crops so I am willing to try everything to get this to stop...